Uniform T in 1-point state semifinal loss
 

This was the main story on page A1 of the Chicago Tribune this morning.

Photos showed obvious violation of the state rule (this year and previous year when I think it said they won the state title). Isn't clear whether the officials would have called this on their own without the state administrator piping up, is it? ...


HIGH SCHOOL BOYS BASKETBALL STATE TOURNAMENT
North Lawndale penalized for illegal uniforms
North Lawndale was a win away from the title game. Then came the technical for a uniform violation.

• UPDATE: Lawndale shows up in same uniforms for 3rd-place game

By Colleen Kane and Bob Sakamoto | Tribune reporters
March 21, 2009

PEORIA - A public-address announcer broke the news.

Before a second would tick off the clock of its Class 3A semifinal Friday against Champaign Centennial, North Lawndale College Prep would be assessed a technical foul.

Uniform violation. Bad stripes.

As Lawndale players watched helplessly from the side of Carver Arena's court, Centennial's Jeff Johnson sank one of two free throws.

Related links

*
UPDATE: North Lawndale repeats uniform violation at state tournament
*
Fair or foul: Technical for a uniform violation

Should the IHSA have penalized North Lawndale for a uniform violation?
Yes No
o View current results
*
North Lawndale's uniforms North Lawndale's uniforms Photos
*
A look at the design violation Graphic

One-nothing, Chargers, 32 minutes to play, Centennial's ball. What a prelude to a game to decide who would play for a state championship Saturday.

The game ended the way it started before it started: Centennial, up one, 66-65.

And North Lawndale? Perhaps the first state semifinalist to be a victim of fashion.

"It's like they gave them (Champaign Centennial) that one point," North Lawndale senior forward Jonathan Mills said. "Plus, they got the ball to start the game. That one point made a big difference, and every possession counted so much in a game like that."

The uniform violation broke a National Federation of State High School Associations rule that states the torso of the jersey — the area from an imaginary horizontal line at the base of the neckline extending to each armhole, down to the bottom hem and from side seam to side seam — must be a single solid color. Also, the side inserts (stripes) must be centered vertically below the armpit, and those stripes can't be more than 4 inches wide.

An Illinois High School Association administrator informed the referees of the infraction, and they penalized North Lawndale with the technical.

"This was very unfair because they waited until we were already Downstate to tell us of the uniform violation," Mills said. "That's what I don't understand. They could have told us about this a long time ago. We could have worn some of our old uniforms that didn't have the stripe."

Kurt Gibson, the IHSA's assistant executive director in charge of boys basketball, said he had warned the team of the violation several times over the last two years, including at the team's shootaround Thursday at Carver Arena.

"North Lawndale's stripe came around the front, which is not allowed," Gibson said.

Lawndale questioned the timing of the most recent warning. Coach Lewis Thorpe pointed out that Gibson had attended the Public League quarterfinal playoff game in February and didn't mention the uniform violation.

"I can't understand why they didn't tell us before about the uniforms," Thorpe said. "This is the most painful loss I've had since I've been coaching."

Gibson maintains he talked to Thorpe two years ago about the uniforms and said rules are reviewed with coaches before the season. Lawndale's uniforms, which the team has worn all season, were ordered in August, Thorpe said.

"They had ample warning," said Gibson, who has worked for the IHSA for seven years. "If they had to put together white uniforms of differing styles, that's fine. So long as they adhered to the uniform rule. My understanding was North Lawndale was going to bring different uniforms. ... I chose to enforce the rule at this state tournament because the IHSA has more control over this event."

Gibson added later: "I don't know how often [the rule] has been previously enforced. We hope that it is [enforced in all games]. ... However, officials have not been required to submit any kind of report to us when they have enforced it."

The uniform infraction added to a string of difficult — and bizarre — incidents surrounding the Lawndale team this season:

• In January, junior forward Jermaine Winfield was shot in the leg while trying to aid a friend when a fight broke out after a game.

• Junior center Paul Bunch was academically ineligible for much of the season.

• And most recently, Mills was suspended for allegedly cheating on an exam but was granted a temporary restraining order by a judge so he could play in the state tournament.

After those obstacles, a uniform violation might not seem very difficult, but Bunch said it was enough to shake the team.

"I think it affected us mentally a little at the beginning of the game," Bunch said. "This is something that should have been taken care of a long time ago. Why did they wait until our game at state?"

Of course, the Lawndale players also recognized that Centennial scored 65 points other than the free throw, including 21 in the fourth quarter to make a comeback that shifted the focus from Lawndale's stripe to the Chargers' baby-blue threads.

"I don't think it was the reason we lost," said junior guard Stephen Thorpe, son of the coach. "We still had a 10-point lead going into the fourth quarter. We let the game get away in the fourth quarter."

North Lawndale, which moved up to 3A after winning the Class 2A championship last March, will play Leo on Saturday for third place. Lawndale finished second in Class A in 2007.

I'm not sure I'd recognize an illegal stripe.

North Lawndale's uniforms -- chicagotribune.com

Looks pretty obvious to me that they are illegal.

Here's the link:

Illinois boys basketball state finals pictures -- chicagotribune.com

North Lawndale (NLCP on their jerseys) were wearing the white jerseys in this game.

Pictures for this game are number 28 through 49.

credit to the player here not blaming the tech.

"I don't think it was the reason we lost," said junior guard Stephen Thorpe, son of the coach. "We still had a 10-point lead going into the fourth quarter. We let the game get away in the fourth quarter."

Now interesting point....The same 3 officials that worked the semi-final game worked the game of theirs before. I wonder if they T'd them up the game before state also?

I'd bet the reason it wasn't enforced last year was the penalty would have been a T for each player who entered the game. Hard to say this year, my guess is most officials aren't looking at the stripes to see if they're legal. I wouldn't have caught it.

I still don't see it; can someone help me? Is it too wide?

The stripe must be centered vertically below the armpit. Their stripe extends into the torso area and not straight down toward the waist. That's my understanding of it.

I see that now, 3-4-11.

Wouldn't The Uniform Manufacturers Know These Rules ???
 

From the NFHS:

http://www.fhsaa.org/bbb/new_uniforms.pdf

NFHS uniform presentation (Move curser to red screen and hit returns to change slides)

Yes, they should know them, Billy, but it's not their job to be compliant. It's their job to make cool looking uniforms that sell. The ones who buy the uniforms should know the rules.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/...3/45700585.jpg

... for those not wanting to follow the links.

I disagree. If you're a uniform manufacturer, you should be aware of what the rules are and you should make legal uniforms based on who you're selling them to.

I honestly would not have probably caught that uniform violation *shrug*

-Josh

I don't think that i would have realized the violation before now. However, if this is the first time that they were receiving a T for this then there is a problem. They had no time to correct the issue. I would assume that if the team received a T for this in the regular season, at least once, they would have taken care of the problem.

Thats why I was asking if the crew that worked the semi's (who also had Lawndale's previous game) T'd them at the start of their game before making it down to state. Even if they did, it would have given them 3 days to get new uniforms, so probably not enough time to receive them.

Ironically one of the officials on this game used to post here but no longer does. ;)

Secondly, state officials (not the ones on the floor) were told to give a T and that they would take the heat for the rule enforcement. The state final officials have to attend a meeting with the IHSA before the games and they are given many instructions on what is acceptable or what is not acceptable.

Finally, I would not have even noticed this was a rules violation and frankly would not have cared. There are not many examples given for what an illegal uniform looks like as it relates to stripes. The team was told to change their uniforms or they would be penalized. This is like worrying about the color of an undershirt and if the right shade fits the uniform color. You do not go around nitpicking something that has little or nothing to do with playing the game. I do not believe most officials would be aware of this violation and it had to be pointed out to many people why it was illegal.

Peace

"Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!"
 

http://ac4.yt-thm-a01.yimg.com/image/499f613129bb08d6

Agree, except for the probably part. I wouldn't have caught it, period.

Agree, but I bet that I would still have a problem recognizing this problem if it were to occur in one of my games next year.

Agree, except, if I had noticed it earlier in the season, which, as I stated above, I would not have noticed, I would have actually cared. I would not have called a technical foul earlier in the season, unless pushed by the opposing coach, but I would not have left the site before advising the coach, and/or site director, that the uniforms were illegal, and that they had better get some other uniforms before some other coach, or officials, decide, somewhere down the line, to penalize for the infraction. I would have also contacted my assignment commissioner, and my local interpreter.

Isn't the "P" with the gold / yellow star in it also illegal?

Allegedly, the team had been told prior to this that they would be receiving a T if they wore the uniforms.

I heard that they also took the "T" in the third-place game the next day.

I highly doubt that they would have been able to get new uniforms over night. However if they had been T'd several times during the regular season, i bet the would have gotten new ones.

According to this yes, the star is also illegal. It says it must be directly above the number. However, it does not state how many colors can be used in the name of the school. It says the torso must be a single solid color and that the number may contain 3 colors.

And yes, they did receive a T before the 3rd place game, but they won that by close to 20 so there isn't as much controversy around that as the 1 point semi-final loss.

Should they have? Absolutely. And if I was in the business of buying uniforms, I'd pick a different company. I wouldn't be able to trust this one. It's still the coach's and/or AD's job to get the right uniforms.

Caveat Emptor

In a quote from the Sun Times, the coach mentions they had played 33 games and not a word from an official. North Lawndale plays in the Chicago Public League which is like the wild, wild, West. I can't imagine any official calling a T for this. I've reffed in the CPL and can't imagine myself calling it.

RW or DK?

I do not think that this is just a CPL problem. This is a problem that happens in every tournament, every shootout and every playoff game. A lot of their games were not from the CPL officials or games. North Lawndale played a Florida team, a Peoria team, a Cincinnati team and a few teams from the suburbs and no one gave them a T. That tells me that no coaches noticed the uniforms and no officials noticed the uniforms. And something like an inseam or stripe is not something most people are going to be aware of. And let us keep in mind, this team has been in to the State Finals 3 straight years and no one addressed this situation.

DK.

Peace

Actually last year Kurt Gibson told them that their uniforms were in violation, so they ordered new ones, which were also in violation. The old uniforms were the teams sophomore uniforms that they offered to change into, but were told that they were also illegal. I don't have Gibson's exact quote, and it may have been on the TV broadcast, but they were given a warning last year. You would think after that warning, they could have double checked the rules regarding the uniforms to make sure the new ones were compliant.

And the officials were told by KG on Thursday that if there were any questions about uniforms that KG was responsible for the ruling, not the officials. This was a mandate from the state, not the floor officials seeing something and making this an issue.

Peace

"In a year that has been so improbable, the impossible has happened!" (Vin Scully)
 

Loved his clutch home run in the 1988 World Series. One of my favorite moments in sports. I can still remember him punching his fist as he limped around the bases.

I lost a bet on that World Series.

Now that's stating the obvious. :eek:

Seems that Kurt from your state office cares. :D

He cared, but he did not care enough to make an issue out of this the entire year. He enforced a rule after telling the school in question several times to correct it.

BTW, that crew that had them at the level before the State Finals and in the first game of the State Finals went on to work the best game of the weekend. It must not have mattered that much that they did not accurately enforce the rules. ;)

Peace

In Vermont, schools got waivers on the uniforms prior to the season [a couple still had gold home uniforms, but one school had a band of contrasting color for the school name on the front] and the officiating association was made aware before the season. The schools are aware that new uniforms are needed and the reasons for non-compliance.

It sounds like the school was made aware and they probably could have refused payment on the new ones delivered that were also illegal. If the officiating crew was instructed to issue the technical foul, then they simply were enforcing the rule. The school did the team members a disservice by not correcting the problem EVEN THOUGH THEY APPARENTLY WERE FULLY AWARE OF THE PROBLEM.

Consider the dead horse here thoroughly beaten.

I don't understand why the school wasted their time in getting the proper uniform. The FED put this rule change in a few years ago (maybe not THAT many but seems so) to give schools time to budget for this. Nebraska and Iowa kept hammering that fact to the coaches every year at the rules meetings even if it became redundant to hear it.

On another note, why don't the FED allow these kinds of stripes? Just another freaking example of making us officials the freaking fashion police, and bad enough some of us have no sense of fashion (or so I've been told!).

I don't get it either. What's wrong with all white unis except numbers, names and school names?:confused:

Just saw an undated photo of North Lawndale uniform. Orange jersey, player wearing black undershirt. Oy, vey.

An update on the subject with some more interesting comments....from Mary Struckhoff

Rivals High - Illegal uniforms cost team in playoff loss

I found this part interesting. Not sure if it's good or bad, but it's interesting.

Maybe it was during warmup before the official advised him he would need to remove it outside of the gym confines if he wanted to play.

I'm going to disagree. It seems to me that according to the rules and the NFHS pdf document the star in the P is perfectly legal. The pdf doesn't state what you claim.

From the NFHS pdf document:

"Any form of decorative accent (i.e., paw, halo, crown, star, etc.) in a
name or abbreviation is only permitted above the number."

Basically the same as 3-4-4e in the rules book:
"Any form of decorative accent (e.g., paw, halo, crown, star) in an
identifying name or abbreviation is only permitted if the name or
abbreviation is located above the number."

Gotta disagree with ya there, Tony.

With them selling to multiple leagues, conferences, etc., I'd say it's "buyer beware."

I agree. This rule prevents decorations in/on numbers and below numbers. If schools turn their school name into a logo, then by this rule at least that's legal.

I surmise that the purpose of this rule is to keep the numbers plainly visible and in the proper position on the uniform.

[QUOTE]Mary Struckhoff, NFSHSA national interpreter for basketball rules and rules editor, said the regulations have not changed in the 10 years she has worked for the association, and they exist for a reason: "Quick recognition, sanctity of the number."

She said opponents, referees and scorekeepers must be able to identify a player quickly, often by using the number. Certain uniform designs could obscure it.

"We have very specific guidelines, and once you say, well, four inches could really be five inches, then five inches could really be six, and what difference does it make?" Struckhoff said. "So, so to speak and pardon the pun, where do you draw the line? Four inches is four inches." [QUOTE]

If you look at the uniforms we've been talking about, quick recognition wouldn't seem to be a problem.

If you leave these guidelines in, yet modify to allow for the stripes as was penalized, you won't have problems.

Again, it's time the FED stop making us the freaking fashion police. Pretty soon we're going to have freaking points of emphasis that have nothing to do with the actual playing of the game because we'll be so freaking tuned into what's illegal to wear, etc. I actually timed our rules meeting this past season (back in November) and it lasted for about 45 minutes. The presenter from the state office spent about 15 of that talking about uniforms. Ridiculous. Rant off, soapbox stored (at least till the rules committee convenes).

And then, there are AAU uniforms....:rolleyes:

The IHSA posted their comments on their web site:

IHSA - Announcements

A quote from the above link:

"Hickman closed by saying, “We feel that too much emphasis is being placed on this one call. In any close contest, there are going to be a number of plays that factor into the final outcome. Both teams had opportunities to win this game and the technical foul played no more of a role than dozens of other made shots, missed shots, turnovers and fouls that occurred throughout the contest. The unprecedented emphasis on this one call detracts from the tremendous effort given by Champaign Centennial and North Lawndale.”

That about wraps it up right there. Make one more shot, and yer unis don't matter.

You mean like bench decorum? :rolleyes:

Bench decorum has plenty to do with the actual playing of the game. I'm all for going back to the f88king sit their a77es down rule or give them the college box because I'm tired of reliving my offensive lineman days on coaches who stand too damn close to the sideline, and they have a wimpy 6-foot box to stand in! :mad:

Maybe the tech was really for the coach's uniform?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/...3/45694883.jpg

Egad! I've gone blind! :D

Don't SAY that!

You Should See The Tuxedo I Got Married In ...
 

Hey. I wore a suit just like that to work today, but without the vest. It was too gaudy with the vest.

Don't say your Mom never warned you.

The reason there wasn't a penalty last year was because it was found so many schools didn't comply with the new uniform rules. The IHSA felt that a technical foul was too harsh for every player and basically gave waivers to all schools. Therefore, the uniform rule last year was suspended until the NFHS Rules Committee could review the rule.

:pWe are talking about the players' uniforms, right? :p

There is a nice article in the October 2009 issue of Referee regarding this issue. Page 38.