Nets (Not New Jersey)

M&M Guy

There was a thread here earlier from someone who was looking for soccer advice (apparently it's real slow over on the soccer side). His question had to do with whether a game can start if there are no goal nets. Someone posted an answer that as far as basketball is concerned, a game cannot start without nets on the baskets.

So here's my question: is that true? I know there are net specifications in the rules, such as size and material, but I don't ever remember reading that we should not start a game, or for that matter continue a game once started, if there are no nets on the baskets. Is that an NCAA or NFHS rule? Or would that fall under state jurisdiction? Is a net on the basket "required equipment"?

And a side question: what if a school runs out of the cotton nets, and the only thing left are the metal nets used on outdoor courts? Could the game start/continue? Obviously there's a safety issue with the metal chains for older players, but what if we're talking about a 5th/6th grade game where none of the players could ever touch the net?

SAK

NFHS

Required as per rule 1 sect. 10
Art. 1.... Each basket consists of a single metal ring, 18 inches inside diameter, its flange and braces, and white cored 12-mesh net, 15 to 18 inches in length suspended from beneath the ring.

Art. 3 continues to talk about the requirements of the net.

In PA as a PIAA referee, i have insurance provided for me by PIAA. The stipulation is that I must follow the rules as they are stated in the NFHS rules book. I would not want anything to happen that would cause me to not be insured for that contest.

M&M Guy

SAK wrote
NFHS

Required as per rule 1 sect. 10
Art. 1.... Each basket consists of a single metal ring, 18 inches inside diameter, its flange and braces, and white cored 12-mesh net, 15 to 18 inches in length suspended from beneath the ring.

I know that's in there, but does that mean if there is no net, we don't play the game, period?

1-9-1, for example, says, "The bottom and each side of all-rectangular backboards shall be padded with a poly high-carb vinyl-type material that meets the Bashor resilience test with a range of 20-30".

Can I see a show of hands as to who has checked that recently? Anybody find the padding did not meet the test specifications, and not play the game?

Mark Padgett

M&M Guy wrote
I know that's in there, but does that mean if there is no net, we don't play the game, period?

1-9-1, for example, says, "The bottom and each side of all-rectangular backboards shall be padded with a poly high-carb vinyl-type material that meets the Bashor resilience test with a range of 20-30".

Can I see a show of hands as to who has checked that recently? Anybody find the padding did not meet the test specifications, and not play the game?

I check the padding before each game. I use a slide rule and an abacus. I've never had a backboard that didn't measure up (pun intended). However, once I did proceed with playing a game when we didn't have a floor. 😮

SAK

I would rather play the game with no nets than play the game with metal, school yard, nets. it would seem dumb but safety is always a factor with those nets.

M&M Guy

SAK wrote
I would rather play the game with no nets than play the game with metal, school yard, nets. it would seem dumb but safety is always a factor with those nets.

I agree, especially with older players who can reach them.

But I guess it still begs the question - where do you draw the line between not playing the game, and playing the game while sending a report to the state association or your assigner? Obviously, it would be hard to play the game without a ball or rims. But we would still play if there was incorrect padding on the backboards, or if there was not a shadow line through the logo painted at center court. Where do nets fall in this question?

SAK

To be honest it would depend on the level of the game and how bad the net is. If it is a school game and the net is completely missing I would have the coach contact the AD to have a new one put up. Chances are that in a school they have an extra net or can take one off the side rims. In a rec league, I would play the game but let the coordinator know that they need to have a net there, hopefully this would be able to be done in a timely manor, like next day or so depending on location of the court, IE school, ymca, or public park, or rec center.

High School Varsity or JV I would have them put a net up. It likely can be done very easily and would only delay the game for a few minutes. Plus, the school should have known that it needed a new net all day. They already had time to fix this issue.

SAK

M&M Guy wrote
I agree, especially with older players who can reach them.

But I guess it still begs the question - where do you draw the line between not playing the game, and playing the game while sending a report to the state association or your assigner? Obviously, it would be hard to play the game without a ball or rims. But we would still play if there was incorrect padding on the backboards, or if there was not a shadow line through the logo painted at center court. Where do nets fall in this question?

For the nets:

Padding,

If it is a suspended backboard, as I assume most are for high school, then it likely only needs padding on the bottom and a little ways up on the side, Don't remember the exact amount. Hopefully it is there and just needs to be taped to the backboard. Here depending on the level I may not play. If I have concerns that someone will hit their head when attempting to dunk or block a shot I may draw the line here.

Makings on the court,

Really the only ones that I worry about during a scholastic game are the coaching box and the X for the timer. Apart from that I take the floor as it is given to me. I may tell the coach or AD that the floor markings should be changed but I understand that is expensive and likely will not get done for the current season. I may also tell my assignor as he could tell those higher up and make sure that markings on the court are as required for future play.

mbyron

M&M Guy wrote
But I guess it still begs the question...

Nope, it doesn't. Beg The Question // Get it right.

BktBallRef

M&M Guy wrote
I know that's in there, but does that mean if there is no net, we don't play the game, period?

1-9-1, for example, says, "The bottom and each side of all-rectangular backboards shall be padded with a poly high-carb vinyl-type material that meets the Bashor resilience test with a range of 20-30".

Can I see a show of hands as to who has checked that recently? Anybody find the padding did not meet the test specifications, and not play the game?

Let's compare apples to apples.

You asked if there's no nets, do the rules say we don't play the game.

I would ask you, if the backboard padding is NOT there, do you play the game?

I don't. But there's nothing there that specifically says you don't play without the padding. It just says the padding is required.

Guess what? Nets are required to.

refguy

BktBallRef wrote
Let's compare apples to apples.

You asked if there's no nets, do the rules say we don't play the game.

I would ask you, if the backboard padding is NOT there, do you play the game?

I don't. But there's nothing there that specifically says you don't play without the padding. It just says the padding is required.

Guess what? Nets are required to.

too.

LocDog249

refguy wrote
too.

Two.... (the number of nets needed)

SAK

Sometimes the problem is the assignor. If you don't work that game, that's fine. They won't use you because someone else would have worked the game.

M&M Guy

BktBallRef wrote
Let's compare apples to apples.

You asked if there's no nets, do the rules say we don't play the game.

I would ask you, if the backboard padding is NOT there, do you play the game?

I don't. But there's nothing there that specifically says you don't play without the padding. It just says the padding is required.

Guess what? Nets are required to.

I'm not necessarily arguing for the sake of arguing; maybe I'm just grumpy because it's Monday. 🙂

I don't disagree with not playing the game if there is no padding - that's definitely a safety issue. But, is not having nets a safety issue? I wouldn't think so.

The reason I mentioned the padding is because the rules not only mention the padding, but also mention a specific type of padding that's required. Heck, for that matter, there's a specific type of net material that's required. But there is no mention in the rules of what occures if these requirements are not met. And I have never seen anyone check to see if the backboard padding or net material meet the rule specifications.

So, where do we draw the line? Obviously, we can't play without a ball. But could we play witout nets? Perhaps only in lower-level games, but not varsity or higher? It's not entirely out of the question that perhaps a school has had a couple of nets go bad, they've ordered more, but the shipment hasn't arrived yet. You get to the Friday night varsity game, go out to observe warmups, and that's when you find out you have to play the game with bad nets, or no nets at all. What's the call?

mick

M&M Guy wrote
It's not entirely out of the question that perhaps a school has had a couple of nets go bad, they've ordered more, but the shipment hasn't arrived yet. You get to the Friday night varsity game, go out to observe warmups, and that's when you find out you have to play the game with bad nets, or no nets at all. What's the call?

Lots of options generally.
Not much chance of one school system with only 2 baskets. Steal a net from another basket or another school in that system.
The nets may be in *disrepair* because the rules don't say they cannot have a knot tied in them.
For backboard padding, I have once allowed duct tape to be applied.
For backboards, um... superglue.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

NFHS R2-S10: Basket Size, Material

ART. 1: Each basket shall consist of a single metal ring, 18 inches in inside diameter, its flange and braces, and a white-cord 12-mesh net, 15 to 18 inches in length, suspended from beneath the ring.
ART. 2: Each ring shall not be more than 5/8 inch in diameter, with the
possible addition of small-gauge loops on the bottom edge for attaching a 12-
mesh net. The ring and its attaching flange and braces shall be bright orange in color.
ART. 3: The cord of the net shall be not less than 120-thread nor more than 144-thread twine, or plastic material of comparable dimensions with no
additional extensions. It shall be constructed to momentarily check the ball as it passes through.

NCAA R2-S13: Basket Size, Material

ART. 1: Each basket shall consist of a single metal ring, 18 inches in inside diameter, its flange and braces, and a white-cord 12-mesh net, 15 to 18 inches in length, suspended from beneath the ring.
ART. 2: Each ring shall not be more than 5/8 inch in diameter, with the
possible addition of small-gauge loops on the under-edge or a smaller ring
located directly under the required ring for attaching a 12-mesh net. The ring and its attaching flange and braces shall be bright orange in color.
ART. 3: The cord of the net shall be not less than 120-thread nor more than 144-thread twine, or plastic material of comparable dimensions with no
additional extensions. It shall be constructed to momentarily check the ball as it passes through.

Based upon the sentence that I have highlighted in red, I am going to go out on a limb and say that the game can not be played unless nets are attached to the rims.

MTD, Sr.

Chess Ref

M&M Guy wrote
I agree, especially with older players who can reach them.

But I guess it still begs the question - where do you draw the line between not playing the game, and playing the game while sending a report to the state association or your assigner? Obviously, it would be hard to play the game without a ball or rims. But we would still play if there was incorrect padding on the backboards, or if there was not a shadow line through the logo painted at center court. Where do nets fall in this question?

In our area we had a problem with numerous schools not having the proper padding last year. Our assignor said
no padding = no game. Amazingly, the problem cleaned up pretty quick. I heard of 2 games that weren't played.

M&M Guy

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. wrote
Based upon the sentence that I have highlighted in red, I am going to go out on a limb and say that the game can not be played unless nets are attached to the rims.

Mark, I guess I kind of skimmed over that part, but you have helped convince me this may be the reason to require that nets be there, rather than suggest they be there.

I don't care what other people say; I think you're alright. 😀

OHBBREF

I am in agreement with MTD, - and myself since I am the original poster- that the nets are necessary to play the game. The net has to be there to cause the check up of the ball as confirmation that the ball passed through the ring.

NCAA Rule 4 section 4 Basket
Each basket consists of of an 18 ring, its flange and braces and appended net through which the player attempt to throw or tap the ball.

NFHS does not include the definition of a basket
however
FED Rule 4 SECTION 6 BASKET INTERFERENCE
Basket interference occurs when a player:
ART. 1 . . . Touches the ball or any part of the basket (including the net) while the ball is on or within either basket.

M&M Guy

OHBBREF wrote
NFHS does not include the definition of a basket

Actually, they do, in 1-10: "Basket Size; Material".

And I think it was you that caused all my mental distress and sleepless nights over this subject. Thanks alot. 😀