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TrojanHorse Sat Mar 14, 2009 07:06pm

Been thinking about this one
 
Happened in a game of mine a while back. District Championship. To say the least, my conduct was not the best. I was ill, we were not playing great, Calls not going are way. So unfortunately for me, I was probably rather annoying. Half time I refocused myself to my team. As we all do, I was having a bad day, but before I get accosted, I know I was in the wrong

With about 8-10seconds left, we get a steal in the and are on a 3 on 1 break. A whistle goes off behind the play we about to put the ball in the hoop. Apparently, one of the opposing players pushed one of my kids in the back. Well, the foul is called, as we now have to inbound the ball in our back court with 2 seconds. I couldn't get an officials attention to as what happened as I was watching the play progress.

To start the 4th quarter, the a non calling official was at the table..and i wanted to ask him why that couldnt be called an intentional, being it was away from the ball, 50ft away, or why it couldnt be passed on. Now I understand that he didnt call the foul, but he was the R so i figure I would ask anyway. I really didnt get a good answer. The R turns to me and says coach, you have done an awful lot of complaining tonight and I dont want to give you a T. I said, Ok fine,(thinking this was as good as stop signal) turned around asked my kids to slide over seats so i could sit. The R walked over to where I was sitting and began to talk to me again. I sat elbows on my knees looking at the court. I guess this upset him in some way as he tells me, "look at me when i am talking to you". I dont, and continue to look forward. He then yells into my ear and repeats himself, LOOK AT ME WHEN I AM TALKING TO YOU!! With out proper judgment, I stood and told him that he would not talk to me in that manner. He turned and gave me a T.

The rest of the game went off with out incident, but I was extremely upset. After the game, the officials had their jackets still at the scorers table and I went to all three, shook their hands, told them good job and apologized for my actions. The first two said thank you and not to worry about it. The other official just gave me a blank cold stare. I have read many times on this board that you dont want to be interrupted in your dressing rooms. I respect that, but it has been my custom win or lose to thank the officials. I respected this official very much, but now I am not so sure. I feel that I took the bait. I have spent time reflecting on this and as I said before, I was no saint in the 1st half. I understood that. I just wanted you're all's opinion on all of this .

JugglingReferee Sat Mar 14, 2009 07:19pm

You didn't give any dissertation about what exactly you did the first half to be a prick. But I believe you when you say that you were.

Everybody has their breaking point. Everyone. Perhaps you went past the one official's breaking point.

The R, in my humble opinion, was out of line. This isn't a good scene when two people are both out of line: the R and you. When two people aren't acting correctly, only badness can occur.

He should not have approach and initiated contact with you that got him angry when you didn't look at him. Yes, it's polite to look at someone when they talk to you, but you accepted his previous crappy answer and started thinking about whatever is next.

I am a bit concerned that you exagerated a bit though. Did he really tell into your ear? How far away from your ear was... he? ...his voice?

The other two officials seemed to handle the situation better. You can hope that the 3rd recognized what happened and did learn from it.

In the end, it does sound like if a foul should have been called (only the calling official can give the most accurate description of what happened), it should have been ruled intentional, and perhaps penalized after your player's shot left their hand(s), if possible.

If in fact you do do a lot of complaining, maybe learn to pick your moments better on when to speak to the officials about a call. If you pick your moments to be quality moments, you are likely to always have the official's ear and gain respect from him about your understand of the game.

Just my 2 cents.

zm1283 Sat Mar 14, 2009 07:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrojanHorse (Post 588393)
Happened in a game of mine a while back. District Championship. To say the least, my conduct was not the best. I was ill, we were not playing great, Calls not going are way. So unfortunately for me, I was probably rather annoying. Half time I refocused myself to my team. As we all do, I was having a bad day, but before I get accosted, I know I was in the wrong

With about 8-10seconds left, we get a steal in the and are on a 3 on 1 break. A whistle goes off behind the play we about to put the ball in the hoop. Apparently, one of the opposing players pushed one of my kids in the back. Well, the foul is called, as we now have to inbound the ball in our back court with 2 seconds. I couldn't get an officials attention to as what happened as I was watching the play progress.

To start the 4th quarter, the a non calling official was at the table..and i wanted to ask him why that couldnt be called an intentional, being it was away from the ball, 50ft away, or why it couldnt be passed on. Now I understand that he didnt call the foul, but he was the R so i figure I would ask anyway. I really didnt get a good answer. The R turns to me and says coach, you have done an awful lot of complaining tonight and I dont want to give you a T. I said, Ok fine,(thinking this was as good as stop signal) turned around asked my kids to slide over seats so i could sit. The R walked over to where I was sitting and began to talk to me again. I sat elbows on my knees looking at the court. I guess this upset him in some way as he tells me, "look at me when i am talking to you". I dont, and continue to look forward. He then yells into my ear and repeats himself, LOOK AT ME WHEN I AM TALKING TO YOU!! With out proper judgment, I stood and told him that he would not talk to me in that manner. He turned and gave me a T.

The rest of the game went off with out incident, but I was extremely upset. After the game, the officials had their jackets still at the scorers table and I went to all three, shook their hands, told them good job and apologized for my actions. The first two said thank you and not to worry about it. The other official just gave me a blank cold stare. I have read many times on this board that you dont want to be interrupted in your dressing rooms. I respect that, but it has been my custom win or lose to thank the officials. I respected this official very much, but now I am not so sure. I feel that I took the bait. I have spent time reflecting on this and as I said before, I was no saint in the 1st half. I understood that. I just wanted you're all's opinion on all of this .

Even if you had been in his ear the first half, he was out of line. There's no reason for him to come back to talk to you unless you said something else that brought him back over there. Unless a coach is trying to talk to me, I never go back and talk to them unless it's really necessary. I would never tell a coach "Look at me when I'm talking to you". If that's how everything went down, I don't blame you for telling him that he didn't need to talk to you like that.

Like I said, I'm assuming your story is how it really happened. He may have a different take on it, but from what you're saying, he went too far.

Adam Sat Mar 14, 2009 07:23pm

1. He baited you. Bad on him.
2. You took the bait. Kinda bad on you. You know it was bad, but he really baited you.
3. Why the he11 were their jackets at the table after the game? We get ours at half time and don't stop by the table after the game.

I wouldn't have looked at him; he's not your father and he's not your teacher.

He was extremely unprofessional.

TrojanHorse Sat Mar 14, 2009 07:28pm

You know, I had really wanted to focus this year and leave the officials alone. I had really been impressed with myself with that the entire year. I probably said more that night than I had all season to the officials.As I said, I was ill, and already grumpy which isn't really a good excuse. I know and understand that. I know what I did wrong. In my head, turning around and going to sit was the best way to end the conversation. Nothing good could have come out of the situation if I continued to stand there. I asked, got an answer and walked away.

I really wish i was exaggerating. A coaching friend of mine who keeps my books said it was anywhere from 1-2 feet as he bent over to yell.

ILMalti Sat Mar 14, 2009 07:30pm

Hindisght perhaps: Would it have helped to ask for a timeout to discuss the situation regarding the foul? Can a coach be given a T when a timeout is specifically requested to discuss a call?

JugglingReferee Sat Mar 14, 2009 07:33pm

I admire that you've taken it upon yourself to improve in the area of official-coach relationships.

If at the end of the year, this is the only incident of significance, I think you did pretty well for the season, considering that (imho), the official was more to blame than you were. (It is possible for a coach to recognize that an official is off his rocker, and diffuse the situation.)

JugglingReferee Sat Mar 14, 2009 07:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILMalti (Post 588399)
Hindisght perhaps: Would it have helped to ask for a timeout to discuss the situation regarding the foul? Can a coach be given a T when a timeout is specifically requested to discuss a call?

Of course. It doesn't matter when during the game a T is issued or has cause for issue.

Asking at half-time is a great time to ask about calls. It would have to be a very special case, imo, to take a timeout to solely ask about a call.

TrojanHorse Sat Mar 14, 2009 07:38pm

As I still think about it, I really dont think that I said a word to the R the whole first half. It was the other two that got stuck in front of me and and to put up with it all. In hindsight, I really think that I would have stuck myself earlier. I didnt even get a stop signal.(I know I dont need one) The other two listened, answered, and that was that.

BktBallRef Sat Mar 14, 2009 08:54pm

Do you have any film of the incident to back your story? If so, I would forward that portion of the tape to the officials supervisor.

amusedofficial Sun Mar 15, 2009 05:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 588400)
(It is possible for a coach to recognize that an official is off his rocker, and diffuse the situation.)

Yes it is. It is also possible that the moon is made of green cheese.

JugglingReferee Sun Mar 15, 2009 08:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by amusedofficial (Post 588437)
Yes it is. It is also possible that the moon is made of green cheese.

Just in time for St. Patrick's Day!


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