Interesting T
 

Has been an interesting few weeks in northern Illinois...check out this video, this is the star player from Waukegan HS, considered one of the top juniors in the nation and committed to Illinois. Regional Championship on Fri night, he was apparently whistled for a tech earlier in the game for getting into a shoving match with an opponent...then he received a second tech for this play (around the 34 second mark of the video) for what the official deemed hanging on the rim...granted the video is not the best, but to me this looks questionable at best, looks like he went to redirect the tip dunk, loses the ball and maybe snaps the rim, but doesn't appear that he hung on it....but what gets me is that everyone is up in arms about the officiating and writing and calling the state office (ejection means he is suspended from the first round of sectionals which will be vs. local rival and previewed as one of the best games in this area in a LOOOONG time) about what an outrage this is....me I'm just thinking if he didn't get the first tech in the first half he wouldn't be worrying about an official with a quick whistle....this kid has a history/reputation of being a bit hot-headed, so I guess this is what it gets you...not sure which official made the call and I don't know any of them well, so I have no idea what the thought process was on this one...

YouTube - Jereme Richmond Td up for missing a (dunk) shot

Friend from Chicago talked about this and said there was a lot of hoopla over it. The town is apparently in a mini-uproar over it -- the team plays last year's state runner-up Wednesday in the next round of the state playoffs and even though it lost a previous match-up this year, figured to have a close game (it's at Waukegan).

Checked out a Chicago newspaper on this, and how's this for a kicker: The star gets a T in the first half and the coach still has him in the game for this to happen. The circumstances? His team was up only 61-38 against a clearly inferior team -- WITH 4:39 LEFT IN THE GAME. (Friend says the starters have been left in far too long in several other blowouts this year, too.)

While this video seems to show a pretty smooth downward motion on the play in question, the kid's coach needs to be called into the principal's office for even leaving him in that position.

Agree with you completely total brainfart by the coach...but funny how things like this keep happening to the same kids over and over - this kid was suspended from the last several games of last season for verbally abusing the coach in front of the team....

I'm rather annoyed that other people's dirty laundry is on here.

What's the point?

"I make my living off the evening news
Just give me something-something I can use
People love it when you lose,
They love dirty laundry"

Don Henley - 1982

more on the subject...........

IHSA: Richmond will sit against Zion-Benton :: High Schools :: YourSeason

We brought this up the morning after it happened..........why is this kid in the game??? Coach needs to look in the mirror

Not at all I just thought it was an interesting point of discussion....for instance does player reputation play into referee treatment? Does the game situation impact what you will/won't call? There is a lot to learn in a bad situation like this....

"Kick em when they're up
Kick em when they're down"

Love the songs by the Eagles - as a group and by themselves.

Fav is Joe Walsh - Life's Been Good So Far.

I could not see the video very well. I do know all three officials that were listed on the game. One of them is a State Final Official. I could not tell what was called just by looking at the video. I am wondering if the T was for something else.

That being said, why would this kid be in the game in the first place? We can debate over the call, but those decisions are final. The state does not come in and change judgment calls that are supported completely by rule. If hanging on the rim is what was ruled, that is what was ruled. He would not have been ejected if he did not get another T earlier in the game. Sounds to me like the coach and fans want to get bailed out. There is already enough of that going around. ;)

Peace

That's what I was wondering - did the kid yell something during the dunk? Was there any taunting involved? Perhaps the officials had seen or heard something earlier that made them think this was an attempt to "rub it in" (see earlier comments about why this player was still in the game at that point). There are many times T's are given as a result of ABS - Accumulated Bull Sh!t - and the final spoken words by themselves may not be considered "T-worthy" on their own, but would be when taken in the entire context.

How come the coaching staff doesn't mention watching the entire pushing incident from the 1st half frame-by-frame? :rolleyes:

Ashlaw relates that upon returning to the high school following Friday night’s game, he and his staff thoroughly reviewed the game film and came to the conclusion that Richmond did not hang on the rim.
:mad:
That's why he isn't the association president.

Good thing the association doesn't review tapes. But this will cost the official games in the future.

No it will not. Two of the officials will have games this week.

Peace

Was wondering the same thing but thought I read somewhere that the Trail called the T.

Interestingly, it seems like none of the newspapers have actually found out (or at least printed) any of the officials' names. Remember we had a thread several weeks ago that broached this subject as I recall, though it seems it was less controversial and an official WAS named in print.

The officials had to write a Special Report for the ejection. I bet there is more to the issue than we all know and what was reported. It is very possible that there was more to this than hanging on the rim. Then again this is why you cannot trust the media for the entire story. There probably are more things to this than reported. Then again what else is new.

Peace

Yeah, there could be something else like taunting. Maybe they had warned him before because just from the video there is no way that should have been called a T. (by that I mean the dunk)

Not so fast..............


Richmond cleared to play vs. Z-B :: REGIONAL SPORTS :: YourSeason

if there's any truth to what the dad did, the Illinois association should stick by the officials and rule accordingly...if it was unsportsmanlike, you're sitting out.

It was ruled it wasn't unsportsmanlike, that's the point.:confused:

So how does that shoe leather taste, Rut? :p Would you like some mustard? :D

I'm not surprised at all that the state overturned that ejection or that what Rut wrote has now been proven to be untrue. :eek:

Moderators please leave this alone.
 

First of all that is the exact words that the IHSA the likes of the Executive Director has said multiple times. I did not pull that out of thin air or assume that I knew the answer. I actually talk to people in those positions and they know me by name.

Secondly, unlike you, I do not make statements based on only what I think; I make statements based on what I know. Just like you posted what you think a supervisor thinks, but obviously many of the things you cry about say never change. Players are still coming out onto the NCAA games with long sleeves and the official you hate the most is working the most prized assignments by a person you say has no integrity.

I do not see this as me being wrong as opposed to the IHSA went against their own words. And considering I bet not a single person here can think of another situation where the IHSA reversed a decision based on a judgment of the rule, I stand by my words instead with the fact that this is my name and I have more credibility saying what I am saying than using a fake azz name with a state and no one knows who you are. ;)

Peace

Everyone else does.

Just like you knew that those decisions were final, and that there's no going back and changing those decisions?

You thought you knew what they were going to do, but you didn't really know seeing that they did the opposite of what you said.

http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...es/roflmao.gif

Still can't admit it. :rolleyes: So sad. :(

Rut based his opinion on past IHSA actions (backing the officials.) Blaming him for being wrong on this is just juvenile.

Question: Is it possible the official who made the call expressed to the IHSA that he'd like to have it back?

I am still waiting for the quote? Where did I say the IHSA would not, could not or would never change a official's decision? Just one quote, it should not be hard to do.

Peace

I've already provided it in post #20 of this thread. :eek:

Dude, you're looking for stuff.

Read the sentence (that you quoted) after the red. His qualifier is clear and sufficient here.

Good grief, your inner 19 year old is showing.

And here I thought that there were no trolls on the basketball forum. Must have escaped from the baseball forum.

Count me out.

Page 26 and 27
 

This is from the IHSA Official's Handbook. Not something I decided to just say or pulled out of thin air.

For the purpose of by-laws 6.011 and 6.012, “Unsportsmanlike Conduct” will
include the following: fighting, verbal abuse or dissent directed toward an official or opponent, racial or ethnic slurs, profanity or obscene gestures, flagrant or violent fouls, taunting, trash-talking, or baiting, cheating, throwing or abusing equipment, physical intimidation or abuse of an official or opponent, and unauthorized leaving of the team bench area.

When a player or coach is ejected from a contest, he/she may not play or coach the rest of that contest. In addition, the ejected player or coach may not play or coach in the next interscholastic contest at that level of competition, whether held the same day or a subsequent day, and all other interscholastic contests at any level in the interim. If a coach or athlete is ejected from the last contest of a season, he/she may not coach or play in the first contest of the next interscholastic sport/activity in which the coach or player participates.
During a suspension for unsportsmanlike conduct coaches may not attend contests or travel with the team to and from contests for which they have been suspended.

—27—

A full written description of the incident, utilizing the IHSA Special Report Form, must be mailed by the official to the principal of the ejected player or coach and the IHSA within 48 hours of the incident.
Schools are to set up administrative procedures to insure proper enforcement of the by-law. Failure to enforce the by-law will result in automatic forfeiture of all contests which the player or coach participates in until the required suspension is carried out.

Ejections for unsportsmanlike conduct are considered decisions of contest officials and will not be subject to appeal (by-law 6.033). Schools and the IHSA may assess additional penalties for unsportsmanlike conduct of players and coaches. Official, if you eject a player or coach this ejection is final. There is no changing of the decision during or after the contest. Therefore make sure that the ejection is warranted.

Peace

Ok.

If you notice, he likes to try to have his cake and eat it too. In one breath, he will make a declarative statement, then in the next say something to try and create an exception and thus leave himself an escape hatch. This way he can later claim to have been on whichever side of the fence that he chooses. Sorry, but that kind of double-talk doesn't do it for me. Anyone with any intelligence will see right through this shoddy debating technique.

+1

So, if a player is suspended only when unsportsmanlike conduct is involved, what are the details? Apparently in this case the first T was unsportsmanlike, but the second was not. So was this a suspension which was overturned or was the player not suspended in the first place, but that was just an assumption.

I will put it this way. The player did not play the last several minutes of a playoff game (the last game he was in). And the decision was not the coach's decision considering that the player was ejected by the officials that were working the game (right or wrong). Since he was ejected and according to the literature of the IHSA, the decision should have stood. Or they could simply change the by-laws and review all ejections by officials. Which actually would be fine with me, but do not speak often about how you respect what officials do and that if you make such a decision that feeling is going to be supported. If it is subject for review, just say that. I would have been more satisfied if they said they were pulling the official's assignments. That would have at least been in the jurisdiction of the IHSA. And this thing has been done before for other reasons. But this is going to be their problem in the end. Now they will everyone trying to appeal decisions. I am not sure if legally this was a good decision.

Peace

Yes, the ejection for the game was obviously a done deal. But the OP indicated that an ejection carried an automatic suspension for the next game. Then the later quote brought up the part about unsportsmanlike conduct. So the question is, with any ejection, is there always a review of the situation, then the suspension for the next game announced, or did the stature of the player in this case lead to special consideration?

I cannot answer why this situation was different. Something tells me if this was a bench player that was clearly ejected I am not sure the result would be the same. Better yet, if that is not the case, it sure looks that way. I see a future lawsuit coming when they do not reduce a player from their suspension.

Peace

Does it really matter to us about whether a T was jusified or not or whether the player should be suspended? To me (and you all may or may not agree with me) is between ISHSA, Schools, and Officials involved.

So JRut am I reading this right - basically they are saying that if the techs came in the opposite order and the unsporting T came second then the suspension would stand? Sounds to me like they are making things up as they go along, definitely not a good precedent to set IMO...

Not really other than in the sense that an official made a judgement and the association appears to be stepping outside the bounds of its own rules to overrule that official...somebody asked earlier if the official possibly contacted the state himself - that was the first thing I thought of as well...if he says hey I screwed up let the kid play maybe that was considered...but the quote from the exec director actually says that the official made the "correct call"...I guess this is just a smoke screen to cover the official b/c if they really mean this then their logic makes no sense...

Didn't they say they thought the official made the right call? A few years ago in Iowa I had a player ejection for two Ts. The first one was for slapping the ball during a throwin, the second for arguing a call. The state did not suspend him, and told me it was because they didn't see the 1st one as a sportsmanship issue.

I had no problem with that. No, he wasn't a star player; it was a JV game.

Yes that is what they said that he made the right call...iff that is truly the issue then I have no problem with it either, but they need to clarify their policy...becuase doing it on the fly makes them look bad IMO...