Traveling ?
 

Working local youth tournament and talking with our Varsity coach who was helping out with officiating. He came up to me and had a question......He said he may only see it a couple more times in his career but was curious as to what the call should be. There was a scrum and A1 ends up sitting on the back of B1 (laying on the floor) and ends up with the ball. So A1 is sitting on the back of B1 with the ball trying to pass it to a team member. B1 moves which causes A1 to start to fall off but gets rid of the ball. His question was : If A1 had fallen off backwards would this have been when the travel violation should have been called or did he blow it by not calling a violation earlier ? He is our girls Varstiy coach and helps out with some youth tournaments and is always asking me questions (trying to get better)........ he actually does a pretty good job.


Thanks

Interesting.

I don't know the rule for it, I hope I never see it. If I did see it, I hope A1 passes the ball before I have to make a call. Sounds like traveling is the right call, if you have to call something.

Player control foul on A1.

MTD, Sr.

Not enough information in the OP to make this determination.

Under NFHS Rules, A1 is sitting on top of B1. B1 is entitled to his position on the floor and A1 has violated B1's verticality.

MTD, Sr.

And yet, B1 does not have legal guarding position.....

Just the facts. All we know from the OP is that "A1 ends up sitting on the back of B1....." This is not enough information to say it was a foul on anybody.
For all we know, B1 rolled/slid under A1 and cut his legs out from under him.

A legal guarding position has nothing to do with this play. B1 legally acquired a position on the floor before A1 landed on top of him. B1 can not exercise his right to stand up because A1 is sitting on top of him.

MTD, Sr.

agreed

Based on the OP, there is no way you can know this.

No preservatives added.
 

"Let's go to the videotape". (Warner Wolf)

B1 rolled/slid under A1 and cut his legs out from under him, then I would have a foul on B1 for blocking. :D

MTD, Sr.

Okay, I am not the only one who knows who Warner Wolf is.

MTD, Sr.

"Change the rule! If you can't win two games in a month, you're out of the league!"
 

Sorry.

Warner Wolf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Game, set, match to JAR. He's got you, Mark!!! :D

Nice one JAR!! http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...s/highfive.gif

Thanks, it was nothing.:cool: Thought he was just gonna ignore me. Some around here do that when painted into a corner.

But we didn't answer the original question in the OP. I.........actually don't know the answer.

Is There A Blue Moon Tonight ???
 

After further consideration, maybe I do know the answer. If we reached this point with neither player being whistled for a foul, then the contact was either ruled incidental or missed. So we proceed with the information we have. A1 is not touching the ball with any body part other than hand or foot. Therefore, unless he establishes a pivot foot and then lifts that foot and returns it to the floor, he is free to do anything: pass, shoot, start a dribble, even stand up

If you got to this point without a foul I can not see calling one because B1 moves, at the same time if B1's movement cause A1 to move - A1 is not traveling. All of the movments that would be ruled traveling are made by the player with the ball, and not forced by contact with another player, if contact forced the movement it would be a foul.
In this case since it is likely that A1's movement is caused by B1 moving you either rule on that contact which I would have to say is incidental or rule that A1 has not established a pivot point (foot) and ignore the movement.

But the questions here is how did A1 end up on B1's back going for the ball in a scrum without a foul being called in the first place.

it is my opinion that we as officials do not call all lot of the fouls that occur during these scrums, and go with the held ball instead. In reviewing films this year I cam up with 10 - 15 cases where I myself should have had foul calls before the held ball was called as there was clearly a push or hack in the scrum that should have been called first.
That is something I plan to work on over the off season this year.

I'm not sure how the kids ended up on top of each other , as you stated I think we are all guilty of not calling fouls in the scrums ............ I appreciate the feedback and am going to pass it on to our coach this morning.


Thanks again.