ball side lead in a 2 man?

UNH IM Ref

You guys ever use ball side mechanics at the lead in a 2 man crew? I never train that way with my refs but had a guy show me that he uses it very infrequently. He said he would squeeze in the play at ball side on the opposite side of the key from his original position but would stand facing his original responsibility.. It looked a little out there but I wanted to see what you guys thought.

Rich

UNH IM Ref wrote
You guys ever use ball side mechanics at the lead in a 2 man crew? I never train that way with my refs but had a guy show me that he uses it very infrequently. He said he would squeeze in the play at ball side on the opposite side of the key from his original position but would stand facing his original responsibility.. It looked a little out there but I wanted to see what you guys thought.

Probably do it 4-5 times a game, mainly when the floor is unbalanced and there's an obvious pass coming into the post.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

UNH IM Ref wrote
You guys ever use ball side mechanics at the lead in a 2 man crew? I never train that way with my refs but had a guy show me that he uses it very infrequently. He said he would squeeze in the play at ball side on the opposite side of the key from his original position but would stand facing his original responsibility.. It looked a little out there but I wanted to see what you guys thought.

I couldn't live without ball side mechanics.

MTD, Sr.

mick

UNH IM Ref wrote
You guys ever use ball side mechanics at the lead in a 2 man crew? I never train that way with my refs but had a guy show me that he uses it very infrequently. He said he would squeeze in the play at ball side on the opposite side of the key from his original position but would stand facing his original responsibility.. It looked a little out there but I wanted to see what you guys thought.

Been doing it for years.
Almost always go ball side [from Lead] with frontcourt throw-in on a sideline.

JugglingReferee

UNH IM Ref wrote
You guys ever use ball side mechanics at the lead in a 2 man crew? I never train that way with my refs but had a guy show me that he uses it very infrequently. He said he would squeeze in the play at ball side on the opposite side of the key from his original position but would stand facing his original responsibility.. It looked a little out there but I wanted to see what you guys thought.

Couple times a game - but less rare in BV, because those guys can pass so quickly that I can't cover my sideline enough.

ga314ref

Just remember to go back if a transistion occurs. The I-Formation in two person sucks.

Forksref

I do it more now than ever, and I think it's because I carry it over from lead in the 3-man. I think you have to go where the action is at times and get a good angle.

Adam

My association pushes this hard in two man. First, it gives you a better look at the post. Second, it's good training for three man.

UNH IM Ref

At the level we ref, college intramurals, action happens fast and players can swing the ball from sideline to sideline in a second. I suppose going ball-side, when the floor is unbalanced pre-inbound pass, could help us get some good angles, but we've got to be careful to catch our sideline responsibility too.

I'll definitely go over this one with my supervisors.

Adam

UNH IM Ref wrote
At the level we ref, college intramurals, action happens fast and players can swing the ball from sideline to sideline in a second. I suppose going ball-side, when the floor is unbalanced pre-inbound pass, could help us get some good angles, but we've got to be careful to catch our sideline responsibility too.

I'll definitely go over this one with my supervisors.

Fair enough, but you have to consider whether losing the angle on the post is too high a cost to maintain an angle on that sideline.

Which is more likely to occur in your games, rough post play or a player stepping on the sideline on a quick reversal before the ref can get there?

Also, is the extra 12 feet going to make that much of a difference in getting a view of the sideline?

If the players are too big and fast, you migh want to consider 3 man. You have to make sacrifices in 2 man.

Rich

Snaqwells wrote
Fair enough, but you have to consider whether losing the angle on the post is too high a cost to maintain an angle on that sideline.

Which is more likely to occur in your games, rough post play or a player stepping on the sideline on a quick reversal before the ref can get there?

Also, is the extra 12 feet going to make that much of a difference in getting a view of the sideline?

If the players are too big and fast, you migh want to consider 3 man. You have to make sacrifices in 2 man.

I had to make a call on a ball bouncing on the sideline from a poor angle the other night. It clearly did, but I would've liked to have been looking at it straight on. It happens once in a while. Just part of the joys of working 2-person.

ss17

This is only my second year, so I have never experienced 3-man before. I have started to move ball side if I am fairly certain that there will be a post entry, also if I know that I have a competitive match-up.

However, I don't do a good job all the time of remembering my PCA there, since I have basically the entire weakside at this point. That's a great idea of angling yourself so you still can still be aware of the PCA.

JPNY25

I do this rarely - maybe two or three times a game, average. I only do it when it seems absolutely necessary. When I see rough post play, or some pushing starting between two post players, I'll pinch in and then drift over if needed to get a good angle.

There are a lot of sacrifices we have to make in two man. For me, it's about determining which is the better gamble - will the post play likely lead to a foul that has impact to the game? If yes, then I say get the angle there. Sure, you lose the sideline for a couple seconds and might miss it if they swing the ball around. But you've got a better chance of getting the post-play call correct.

Regards,

Jim

mutantducky

I let my partner know I will do it. When I have lots of energy and I'm hyped about doing a game then sure I don't mind moving around a lot. But really something to avoid a lot because you can lose track of off-the ball stuff going on.

LDUB

mutantducky wrote
But really something to avoid a lot because you can lose track of off-the ball stuff going on.

A1 and B1 are standing on the free throw lane near the block while A2 looks to pass to A1. A1 and B1 moving for position is probably the #1 off ball match up which needs to be officiated. The L needs to be in the best position to observe this action. Once the ball is passed to A1 it is now in the L's primary and he should be watching the action on A1. The L needs to be in the best position to observe this action. Thinking about missing other off the ball action isn't a good reason to not go ball side. Of course you will miss other off the ball calls when you go across but that is what the teams get when they only hire 2 officials.

Rich

LDUB wrote
A1 and B1 are standing on the free throw lane near the block while A2 looks to pass to A1. A1 and B1 moving for position is probably the #1 off ball match up which needs to be officiated. The L needs to be in the best position to observe this action. Once the ball is passed to A1 it is now in the L's primary and he should be watching the action on A1. The L needs to be in the best position to observe this action. Thinking about missing other off the ball action isn't a good reason to not go ball side. Of course you will miss other off the ball calls when you go across but that is what the teams get when they only hire 2 officials.

And when the L moves over and takes primary coverage on the block, the T must expand his coverage and give the on-ball matchup to the lead. The T must pick up some of the off-ball activity.

kgeorge0263

Honestly...at the IM level...use it sparingly and have the Trail just work really hard...like a "C" in the 3 person.

In the varsity level especially boys for 2 person, I use the mechanic frequently....as I would rotate for a 3 person crew. I would pregame this with my partner though...so he protects my backside when I come over.

Also...always curl back around...and be aware of 3 pt. shots in your old primary...you can signal and stay with the shooter.

-KG

Adam

Why the difference?