Thought I could get throught the season but noooo....

[Jmuvol]

Final set of games on my schedule for the year, Girls and Boys 8th grade games. I have been told all season by members of the association, I'm new to the Savannah area, how bad the coaches in the area run off at the mouth but I didn't have any issues this season. 3 minutes to go in the 3rd quarter of the Girls game, red player drives the basket, defender chasing, defender fouls, partner has the call, red player stumbles into the wall padding. She then walks a few feet toward her bench, sits down and starts to cry. Coach begins to head her direction so I hit the whistle to alert my partner we have a stoppage of play because of the "injury." After 30 seconds or so, she gets up and starts to head to the free throw line. My conversation with the coach went something like this:

Me: Coach, I need a sub for #12.
Coach: What! Why!
Me: We stopped play for you to attend to her.
coach: She was hurt...you should have called an intentional foul.
Me: I understand coach...I need a sub please.
Coach: This is ridiculous...she was intentionally fouled!
Me: I still need a sub coach.
Coach: I'm not sending in a sub!
Me: Tweet...report T. Coach, sub please.

Sub enters, misses both free throws. White misses both free throws. And away we went. Coach was fine the rest of the game. So much for my "perfect" season...

[Adam]

Did you give him a 20 second clock?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Did you give him a 20 second clock?

This is the part that's missing. And if he refuses to have a sub ready at the 2nd horn, the technical pretty much calls itself. It's what happened to me in a GV game a few weeks ago (it was on a disqualification, but it's the same principal).

I also think there are a lot of officials that don't realize that there is a 20-second interval in this situation that starts when the coach is done attending to the player and clearly turns to the task at providing a sub.

[Adam]

Just so you know, here's how the conversation should have gone.

Originally Posted by Jmuvol

Me: Coach, I need a sub for #12.
Coach: What! Why!
Me: We stopped play for you to attend to her.
coach: She was hurt...you should have called an intentional foul.
Me: Table, I need a 20 second clock and with a horn after 5 seconds.

He may have still persisted and earned his T, but it might have been prevented with the proper mechanics.

[181174]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

This is the part that's missing. And if he refuses to have a sub ready at the 2nd horn, the technical pretty much calls itself. It's what happened to me in a GV game a few weeks ago (it was on a disqualification, but it's the same principal).

I also think there are a lot of officials that don't realize that there is a 20-second interval in this situation that starts when the coach is done attending to the player and clearly turns to the task at providing a sub.

I didn't realize you should start a 20 second clock after a player has been attended to and you are waiting for a sub to come to the table. I don't think I have ever had a coach refuse to put in a sub after an injury to a player. Have had trouble getting a sub from time to time after a foul out but the 20 second horn takes care of that, though I have never had to issue a technical because of that, though a few times have forgot to start the time because of a "healthy" discussion with the coach. Sometimes in those moments especially dealing with Middle School coaches the right mechanic slips the mind from time to time.

[Loudwhistle]

Snaqwells,
Thanks for posting good suggestions to use with coaches and other situations! I had a similar problem two weeks ago and I wish I would have done what you indicated.

LW

[Adam]

That's understandable, and most of these coaches will continue arguing until you start the clock. At most, he'll talk to a wall for 20 seconds until the T is issued. Report the T and repeat as necessary.

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Did you give him a 20 second clock?

you guys get to CLOCK the coaches for 20 seconds?
do you use clubs or just fists?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

you guys get to CLOCK the coaches for 20 seconds?
do you use clubs or just fists?

Whatever is available. In MS games, we don't even have to use the rule of thumb.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

you guys get to CLOCK the coaches for 20 seconds?
do you use clubs or just fists?

OHBBREF:

Since I have been playing golf since I was nine years old I have always favored a sand wedge myself, but Rebok has a new baseball bat that has holes in the handle to decrease drag and I intend to try during the summer basketball season, .

MTD, Sr.


P.S. But none-the-less, I still follow Bill Cosby's father's advice: Hit for distance.

[Jmuvol]

I was turning to the table to ask them to time 20 seconds for me when the coach, a woman by the way, told me she "would not send in a sub." My belief at that point was she had crossed the line and deserved the T. I could have waited for the 20 seconds but it wouldn't have made any difference. She simply wanted me to know she was unhappy with the lack of an intentional foul call.

[Adam]

Fair enough, but I would highly recommend taking the extra 20 seconds for a variety of reasons.

[SWMOzebra]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Fair enough, but I would highly recommend taking the extra 20 seconds for a variety of reasons.

Trust Snaq on this, he's 100% on the mark....it's hard to get yourself in trouble when you follow the rules.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

Trust Snaq on this, he's 100% on the mark....it's hard to get yourself in trouble when you follow the rules.

Yup, otherwise you have:
Assigner: So, is it true that you gave Coach Fidiot a T for not giving you a sub?
Ref: Yes.
Assigner: Is it true you didn't give her the 20 second sub clock?
Ref: Yes.
Assigner: So what was your rule basis for the T?
Ref: ????


By rule, coach has 20 seconds to provide the sub, and what they say in the interim does not shorten that time limit. You called the T before she broke the rule.

[KJUmp]

Snags..nice job on how to handle the situation and how to utilize the 20sec. clock in the sitch. I'm new and DID NOT realize that you could/should use the clock in the injury sub sitch. AND that you don't utilize it unti lthe HC is finished attending to the injured player.
Filed away for future reference&use if/when necessary.