Today at a boys' H.S. team camp the following play happened:

A1 has the ball in his team's backcourt and is fouled by B1. My partner reports the foul and indicates which team gets the throw-in and where the throw-in will be. At this point Coach A requests a time-out which is granted. After the time-out is over, Coach A asks me WHICH team is going to get the ball for the throw-in.

Wow! For a second there, I thought we had hit an amazing scientific research breakthrough!

It is a rather good example of idiotic coaches, though.

So....which team was it? Don't keep us in suspense.

Which rules you are you working under and was it a full time out? Might make a difference.

How? B1 committed a foul before the TO, so it has to be A's ball when we come back, whether it was a full or a 20 (sorry "30"). Unless, of course, there's a technical foul on Team A before the ball becomes live again. Right? Am I missing something obvious?

Chuck

Stan, are you Coach A? :D

Sorry folks, that's my weak sense of humor. Actually I'm a first year official, is that as bad as a coach?

Not even close. ;)

coaches are idiots because they are lost in the sauce, and understand nothing! Or most of them...:)

Stan,
I thought it was a cute extension to Mark T.'s post.
But, I'm warped too!
Dan Ref woulda got it.
mick

No, no, it just means that I'm taking myself a little too seriously lately. Duh. Sorry :(

Chuck

I have a good one for you.
 

I was doing an AAU Tournament this morning and we had a correctable error situation. Without going into all the detail, we had a foul by B1 that was suppose to be a 1&1 situation. Well of course because this is AAU, we did not have experienced people running the table. They did not tell us until several trips up and down the court. Then we finally had a dead ball (out of bounds call) and we were then informed of the mistake. Because we have not passed the alotted time to still correct the sitation, we go back and try to shoot the 1&1. Team B coach goes crazy saying we have to wipe off all the points that happen in between the time of the mistake and the out of bounds violation. Then he says to me, "in all the years I have been coaching AAU, I have never seen that happen." I just laughed and told him, "it was Rule 2-10 and that was on of the situations we can correct." He thought I was crazy and told me how wrong I was until my partner comes over and says to him, "he gave you the ruling, now there in not much else to discuss."

I love AAU :D

Peace

Re: I have a good one for you.
 

Rut,
I assume no baskets were scored. What was the coach yelling about "all of the points"? If there was a basket scored, wouldn't we have to have corrected it right then, after the first basket?
mick

Basket made...dead ball. Ball at disposal...ball thrown in...end of time to correct error. Or so I thought.

I T'd a coach yesterday for complaining about a foul called on the other team! See, his team was behind in a running clock situation and he would have preferred that we ignore the shooting foul and let the kids play. I guess he was thinking that it would take too much time to line up and shoot the free throws?

Except the one I worked for yesterday. He told me he was really impressed with me, and that he was going to request me for his games this coming season. I know we aren't supposed to believe them if they say we are good, unless we are also going to beleieve them if they say we are bad. But it sure felt good, nonetheless.

Then we were at a Portland Fire game last night and at half-time he was getting an award for being an outstanding high school girls' coach!! i had a hard time not standing up and shouting!!

Of course, the real proof will be next winter, when he loses by 2 because of a foul I call on his player in the last 20 seconds...

PS I'm not talking about Brad Smith or Carl Tinsley. They got awards too, but I wasn't working for them.

Much clearer.
 

We only had one live ball sense the "correctable" situation. But during that period a 3 point shot was made one of the times up the court. Then a dead ball, the out of bounds play, then we were told about the mistake we had made by not shooting FTs. The coach wanted the 3 point shot whipped completely away, which we could not have done anyway correctable error or not.

Peace

All that did not happen.
 

Ball was not thrown in yet. The table informed us right after the ball was out of bounds. Still within the time frame and guidlines of 2-10-2.

Peace

<i> Team B coach <b> goes crazy </b> saying we have to wipe off all the points that happen in between the time of the mistake and the out of bounds violation. </i>

Good job with your rule knowledge here Rut. He went crazy despite your presence and game management skills which has been known to happen from time to time. And when he goes home to look up the rule in the book (for his "complaint" to the league director), he'll find that you got it right. End of story.

Z

I thought you didn't do AAU?

Rules Knowledge did not help me here.
 

Zebraman, let us get something very straight. I have <b> never </b> said that coaches will not go crazy with good managment of the game or the confidence. I did say the way you handle it will go a very long way in the way you are preceived as an official. And if the confidence you hold is lacking, he might continue to rant and rave about what they thought I blew. And because I was firm about it, the conversation ended and we moved on (help from my partner of course). Now this idiot coach did not know the rule. And if you think that he is actually going to go home and look up a rule that it is using anecdotal evidence to debate with me, then you are not much smarter than he is. What coach have you really ever know to be that proficiant in the rules to debate with most officials on what rule really are? See Z, I am not worried about him, I am worried about the assignors, evaluators or anyone else that has real influence in determining what officials do and how far they advance. This coach is still going to think I am stupid and do not know the rule, remember he thought I should take off points. No rule that I know takes off points for a correctable error unless we awarded points that was not valid. This was not the case here. BTW, this was not a tournament that some "director" could or would have had much say in anything any official did. This was an independant tournament that was just held this weekend. So even if this coach went back and complained, who the hell would he have complained to?


You seem to love to try to pay close attention to other things I say, you need to pay much closer attention now. I have never said that I do not do AAU. If that was the case, I would not have talked about an AAU Regional Championship Tournament I did in Rockford, IL about 2 months ago. If I did not do AAU, I would not have done that tournament now would I? Secondly, I do not schedule AAU Tournaments or seek them out for the very reason I am telling you this story in the first place. You do not have qualified coaches or even people that coach basketball outside of these tournaments most of the time, so some Dad (HAPPY FATHERS DAY BTW!!! :D) is trying to tell me what rules are and they have never taken one test or even know what the National Federation is. You can be a 1000% rules guy and be told how stupid or incompetent an official you are coming from individuals that base rules by what Bill Walton says during the Final Four or NBA Finals. Most of the time I would much rather pass and have a V8 in the process. Now having said that I did this particular game or tournament that I did was for an officiating friend of mine that asked me to help him out. I only did this because I knew who my partner was and I was doing it for this friend. Otherwise I most likely would have passed.

Peace


[Edited by JRutledge on Jun 16th, 2002 at 03:19 PM]

Relax Rut. I was only half serious. Next time I'll include the smiley face. It's going to be all right. But by the way, I will admit that I don't read all your posts. Once you exceed a couple paragraphs, I tend to nod off. :-)

Z

I think you take me much more seriously than I take myself. It is only a game and certainly only a discussion. ;)

Peace

Apparently we kicked it.
 

The play that I basically called the coach and idiot, is still true, but we were wrong too but not for the same thing.

Well after the 3 point shot, the ball is dead. So unless we caught the error, which we did not, the time has elapsed to correct this error. I asked this at a camp and some college officials and State Rules Interpreters and Clinicians were there. We kicked this call because I did not take into account after the basket, we have a dead ball. And when the ball was inbounded, the time has expired. So basically we were totally wrong about shooting the 1&1. They missed the front part of the 1&1, so our mistake did not affect the game, but it could have. But then again this goes to my whole point. We kicked the call, but the coach was arguing something that was not correct at all despite what he told us. We were wrong on the application of the rule because we did not take into account when we had an actual dead ball. I guess I was concentrating more on the fact that the clock must have started. But I guess it has if you have made a basket and you have put the ball back into play.

Basically we kicked it. And look at Casebook play 2.10.2.(Happy now Tony?). Very similar to what happen to us but the casebook play has a timeout for the dead ball instead of an out of bounds. But other than that, this was almost identical.

Peace

zebraman, Rut talks so much junk, he can't keep up with it all! :D

http://www.officialforum.com/showthr...?threadid=4996

Rut,

Despite your constant rants to the contrary, it's obvious that nobody takes this board more serious or personal than you do. But you add comic relief because your self-contradictions have become so frequent that you can't even keep track of them all. :-)

And you can rant all your want about presence, but we're paid to get the calls right. I feel bad to the kids and coaches when I kick one...whether it's my judgment that I second guess or a rule interpretation.

Z

The point of my posting was intended to be humorous. I know that I am not the best story teller but just read the post again guys because I think that this thread is getting far of the road I wanted to go down.

Right again Zebraman. I get games from here. I come here instead of going to camps. I even do not belong to associations because I can only talk to the good people of a computer discussion board to make. Sure Z, you got me down pat. :D

Peace

You go Tony!!!!
 

So I guess if someone asked me if I was a D1 Official and I say no. Then a week later a friend that actually does D1 asks me to cover for them and I do this D1 game, I guess to you that would be a lie? Good thing I do not live my life through you like you do me.

Do this Tony, ask me when I am doing the next one? ;)

Peace

:D

Mark, threads on a discussion board are like children going off to college. Once we let go of them and send them into the world, they take on their own lives and we have little control of them. Wish them luck, check in on them once in a while, cry just a little when they descend into vapid discussions of Hitler. And when they come back around to the original topic, welcome them back with a warm post, clean up their old bedroom, buy their groceries till they find a summer job. . .

What were talking about again? :confused:

Chuck

Chuck,
What college are they going to and is it public or private? Might make a difference.

...Or full time ot part-ime.
:)

The Bosox,and the last time they won a World Series!
I think you got them nailed above--"wish them luck,check in on them once in a while,cry just a little when they descend..."!:D

You're not going to fool me again, Stan. This time I reply with an emphatic smiley!!!! :D

Chuck

Once again, I quote the immortal Eric Cartman: JR, "I'm going to kill you over and over again."

By the way, three cheers for Mo Vaughn!!! :p

Chuck

Chuck - don't ever change! You make me laugh on these posts all the time...btw: how about that Clemens-Mets matchup this weekend??? Turned on the satellite to watch the Rocket get beaned...pretty disappointing. Exactly how does one miss an arse that big anyway???

Do you mean an arse like Clemens or an arse as big as Clemens' arse? :D

BTW, IMHO, if you're going to throw at him once, you've gotta keep throwing at him until you hit him.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef
[

Do you mean an arse like Clemens or an arse as big as Clemens' arse? :D


BOTH!!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rockyroad

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef [ Do you mean an arse like Clemens or an arse as big as Clemens' arse? :D BOTH!!!

Gotta agree with that!! Was it '88 when he deliberately bailed out on the Sox in that ALCS game vs. Oakland? Got down a few runs and wasn't pitching well-so he deliberately got himself tossed instead of hanging tough in there and trying to get out of trouble.He really let the Sox down that day,and I lost all respect for him(don't tell Chuck,but I was pulling for the Sox that year.Never could stand those Oakland teams).He then spent the next four years out-of-shape and on the DL most of the time--and whined when they shipped his fat butt to Toronto.
I was kinda hoping that the Mets woulda plunked him,just to see if he had the cojones to do something about it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad Quote: Originally posted by BktBallRef [ Do you mean an arse like Clemens or an arse as big as Clemens' arse? :D BOTH!!! Gotta agree with that!! Was it '88 when he deliberately bailed out on the Sox in that ALCS game vs. Oakland? Got down a few runs and wasn't pitching well-so he deliberately got himself tossed instead of hanging tough in there and trying to get out of trouble.He really let the Sox down that day,and I lost all respect for him(don't tell Chuck,but I was pulling for the Sox that year.Never could stand those Oakland teams).He then spent the next four years out-of-shape and on the DL most of the time--and whined when they shipped his fat butt to Toronto. I was kinda hoping that the Mets woulda plunked him,just to see if he had the cojones to do something about it.

I thought the whole thing stank. All week the media was
banging the drums on this, when Estes threw behind him on
the first pitch I was disgusted. WWF never looked as fixed.
Frankly I would have felt better if Estes would have just
plunked fat old Roger & taken his chances. Obviously
pre-arranged, very sad day.

MLB just wanted to put this whole thing to rest, IMO. Could
have been put to rest 2 yrs ago if Piazza would have done
what he had to do. They sure don't make 'em like Billy
Martin or Bob Gibson anymore.

Anyway, here's what MLB has to say about this mess:


An Interleague weekend of all games in National League parks provided a uniform set of rules. Pitchers across the board had to bat. Many looked bad. A few experienced a Major League thrill by actually getting a hit. And guys like Roger Clemens and Tim Hudson learned there is a thing called accountability.


Accountability? Hardly.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/ne..._mlb&fext=.jsp

Dan,
As I recall, Piazza did exactly that. He made his parents and fans proud.
mick

Mmmmm, well, turning the other cheek is fine, as is bending
like a young willow to the storm, but somehow I gotta think
if a pitcher throws a broken bat head at you and takes a
few steps in your direction you've got to at least make him
stop and take a few steps backwards. Anyway, I think if
Piazza had played it differently this would have been an
issue for 2, 3 days then gone away. IMO.

Bat head? What bat head? He thought he was throwing the ball -- even Roger said so. :D I have always been a Yankee fan and I always will be, but he should have been tossed from that game -- World Series or not. He should have been tossed.

Back to the subject of coaches being idiots, had a funny thing happen in a 16-18 year old AAU game this past Sunday. Team A lost by about 30 points because they got out-played, out-hustled, and out-shot. Also got out-coached. Team A coach (constantly berated her bench) was upset with the whole deal -- more at her team than us, but at the end she came up to us (3-person)looked at one of my partners and demanded:

Coach: I want your name.
Partner: You can't have it.

Coach: Why not?
Partner: Because my parents gave it to me and you have to get your own name.

She then looks at 2nd partner and asks (rather than demands):

Coach A: Can I ask your name?
Partner: Sure, it is "Richard Cranium".

Coach: Thank you.

She walks a away and it finally dawns on her what he said and she looks back at him and said "That can't be your name". He told her "Tha's what my wife calls me all the time".

She just turned and walked away, but the look on her face was priceless.

dblref - you win this week's "Davism" award. Your "Richard Cranium" name is in the same genre as the guy who used to post on the "other board" - Heywood Jablowme.

Try giving that name to a coach sometime. ;)