Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 581519)

contact violation?????

Originally Posted by BubbaRef (Post 581526)

Sorry cleaned it up for ya...

Originally Posted by BubbaRef (Post 581510)

I had this same exact play in my girls 3a regional last night and I ended up calling an offensive foul because the offense made contact with the defense with her elbow and the defenders chin. The defender went down and the call had to be made. The coach of the team I called the foul on said nothing when I made it. Also talked to a state finals official that was at the game and he said it was an excellent call also.

I would think that if some kind of contact is made in the scenario's in this thread something has to be called a foul on defense or offense, or if you have excessive swinging then call a violation. I would hate for this to have happened and nothing called.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 581564)

Let me ask you, then. A1 gets a rebound, B1 standing, leaning over A1 invading his rightful space. A1 pivots, elbows out but not swinging them excessively, hitting B1 square in the jaw with his elbow.

What are you going to call, since you have to have something?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 581564)

Let me ask you, then. A1 gets a rebound, B1 standing, leaning over A1 invading his rightful space. A1 pivots, elbows out but not swinging them excessively, hitting B1 square in the jaw with his elbow.

What are you going to call, since you have to have something?

Originally Posted by M&M Guy (Post 581546)

You gotta watch out for these guys (and gals)...they ain't kidding around if you use, like, bad English and stuff. ;)

Congrats on what looked like a great championship game! #1 team gets beat by 1.

Originally Posted by BubbaRef (Post 581616)

Like I said if you have to call a foul on the defense then that is the call. If you are invading the space of the offense that would not be legal guarding position would it?

Then be prepared for the defensive teams coach to come unglued.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 581620)

I'd come unglued, too. There was no advantage gained on this, the offended player (the offense here) was not hurt nor displaced nor impeded. It's a no-call by rule, and a lot easier to explain to the coach.

Originally Posted by BubbaRef (Post 581627)

Would leaning into the offense's rightful space be legal guarding position?

Wouldn't that be the same as if A1 goes up for a shot and B1 doesn't have his/her arms straight up and makes contact with A1's arm on the shot? Then you would have a foul on B1 for that wouldn't you?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 581629)

LGP is not relevant for determining if there was any advantage. LGP is not relevant to this play.

If it affects the shot, yes. If it doesn't affect the shot, then no. Not all contact is a foul, by rule there must be some sort of advantage for it to be a foul.

4-27-3 "Contact which does not hinder the opponent from participating in normal defensive or offensive movements should be considered incidental.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 581641)

A1's pivot was not hindered. Upon contact, B1 recoils and A1 is able to complete his motion without hinderance.

By not relevant, I mean it's not relevant in determining whether or not the contact warrants a foul. It might be relevant in determining who is responsible for contact, but if there's no advantage, there's no foul.

Originally Posted by BubbaRef (Post 581648)

Ok then I understand where your coming from after these statements. Just from your initial post is what I was going on, but I am sure you meant that in your first post.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 581651)

Fair enough. I think LGP is overused. I'm seeing B1 standing stationary guarding A1, so LGP isn't really an issue.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 581258)

How close is she getting to the face; could be a T.