Striking with fist

[mick]

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach

This violation, along with 10 seconds to shoot an FT, are two I've never seen called in my life. Anyway, last night, Men's Wreck League, point guard gets an inbound pass in his backcourt, all by himself, dribbles once, and the second dribble is whack-a-mole style, downward strike with the bottom of his fist, mad about something I guess. He continues his dribble and I call nothing, because it is rec league.

It got me to thinking about this, however. I was trying to decide if I would call it in a HS game. I mean, of course I'd call it at any level if any other player was near the fist-in-motion. But do I get this if the same situation as described above happens in a HS JV or V game?

Rule 9, SECTION 4 TRAVEL, KICK, FIST
A player shall not travel with the ball, as in 4-44, intentionally kick it, as in 4-
29, strike it with the fist or cause it to enter and pass through the basket from
below.

NOTE:

Kicking the ball is a violation only when it is an intentional act; accidentally striking the ball with the foot or leg is not a violation.

PENALTY: The ball is dead when the violation occurs and is awarded to the
opponents for a throw-in from the designated out-of-bounds spot nearest the

violation.

PA Coach,
My knee jerk reaction would be to no-call.
The Case Book shows nothing. The Rules By Topic gives no rationale.

So where do we go? If we try to decipher the spirit and intent, what do we find? We see a safety effect or a sporting effect.


The penalty is only loss of ball and it seems that it may fit in the same category as throwing an elbow. The rationale for the elbow movement is to reduce rough play.

• If a player, bringing the ball up the floor (undefended), throws an elbow at nothing, will we take the ball away?

To me the reason for the fist rule is to reduce the potential for players swatting at balls or playing defense (in the vicinity of an opponent) with fists, which could certainly be intimidating and unsporting. The rules will (certainly) not state that a player may not make a fist, but it makes sense that playing the game with open hands is more applicable to the game of basketball.

I agree with you when you adjudge players in the vicinity, although if the lonely dribbler comes up the floor fist dribbling the ball, that player would have my attention; though I wouldn't be looking for the carry, I may see an illegal dribble.

[shishstripes]

I had a situation where the player punched the ball with his fist as well to advance the ball to a teammate. Only time I have ever had to call it. Gave the kick signal and said, "Punching the ball." Players thought it looked funny that I used a kicking motion to call punching.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by shishstripes

I had a situation where the player punched the ball with his fist as well to advance the ball to a teammate. Only time I have ever had to call it. Gave the kick signal and said, "Punching the ball." Players thought it looked funny that I used a kicking motion to call punching.

Why would you use a kick signal?

[shishstripes]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Why would you use a kick signal?

That is what I was taught to use at a camp where we covered violations in the classroom. There is no approved signal for fist and this official's reasoning was that it was grouped with kick, but to specify that it was for punching the ball verbally.

[Zoochy]

I have stated this in a past post on Fisting. I saw a girl do in to begin the game. I know your minds are in the gutter..... but she punched the ball on the opening jump ball.
As mentioned by others, I have seen it called when a player punched the ball during a rebounding action.

[mick]

Originally Posted by shishstripes

That is what I was taught to use at a camp where we covered violations in the classroom. There is no approved signal for fist and this official's reasoning was that it was grouped with kick, but to specify that it was for punching the ball verbally.

TRAVEL, KICK, FIST

I wonder why it isn't the Traveling with the Kick.
["And awaaay we go!" - Jackie Gleason with a little Traveling music]

[CallMeMrRef]

I am pretty sure that we got a bulletin on this for NCAA games and the strike with a fist is to be handled in the same manner as a kick. Reset clock to 15 if under 15 seconds at time of violation.

[Raymond]

Actually called my first fisting violation, Boys JV. Missed shot, defensive player surrounded by 3 offensive players jumps and punches the rebound towards his front court.

In order to keep the ladies in the crowd from getting excited, I chose verbalize the violations as "he punched the ball".

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by shishstripes

That is what I was taught to use at a camp where we covered violations in the classroom. There is no approved signal for fist and this official's reasoning was that it was grouped with kick, but to specify that it was for punching the ball verbally.

Been to several camps but never heard that before. Interesting reasoning.

[SmokeEater]

We were told to close your fist and strike the palm of your other hand when making this call. Never had to do it as of yet and this is year 30.

[Adam]

I was C in a game this year when a caught a girl doing it in front of lead. She was trying to save the ball from going OOB, but the L called her for being OOB when she hit it. I told her on the way down the court that it was against the rules to punch the ball.

"For real?"
"yeah."

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by mick

To me the reason for the fist rule is to reduce the potential for players swatting at balls or playing defense (in the vicinity of an opponent) with fists, which could certainly be intimidating and unsporting. The rules will (certainly) not state that a player may not make a fist, but it makes sense that playing the game with open hands is more applicable to the game of basketball.

mick: This is almost exactly what my interpreter said after I asked him about the this rule last year. I had called the violation after one player punched the ball to his teammate, while both were alone, with no defenders, in the backcourt. I won't make that call again.