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-   -   Over the back, ON the back RM article (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/51601-over-back-back-rm-article.html)

Nevadaref Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:55am

Over the back, ON the back RM article
 
Did anyone see the article on verticality by Tim Sloan in the Feb 2009 issue of RM?

I have to disagree with several of his statements and rulings. :(

Welpe Thu Feb 12, 2009 01:36am

I read it this morning. Out of curiosity, what did you disagree with? I am simply asking because I don't know any better myself. :)

Nevadaref Thu Feb 12, 2009 03:44am

His ruling on play #2 was the first thing that caught my attention. :eek:

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Feb 12, 2009 08:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 578434)
His ruling on play #2 was the first thing that caught my attention. :eek:


Tim Sloan's rulings in Play #2 are completely wrong. His ruling show a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of the definitions of guarding and screening as well as the priniciple of verticality.

MTD, Sr.

fullor30 Thu Feb 12, 2009 09:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 578418)
Did anyone see the article on verticality by Tim Sloan in the Feb 2009 issue of RM?

I have to disagree with several of his statements and rulings. :(

Can you post a link?

Nevadaref Thu Feb 12, 2009 09:38am

No, I'm not a subscriber nor do I even have a copy of the article.
Perhaps someone else will post some extracts for our bashing pleasure.

:D

doubleringer Thu Feb 12, 2009 09:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 578457)
Tim Sloan's rulings in Play #2 are completely wrong. His ruling show a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of the definitions of guarding and screening as well as the priniciple of verticality.

MTD, Sr.

Don't beat around the bush Mark. Please give us your honest opinion of the article. :D

By the way, I'd like to read the ruling if anyone could post it as well.

Indianaref Thu Feb 12, 2009 09:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 578486)
Perhaps someone else will post some extracts for our bashing pleasure.

:D

Everyone knows you are the Masterbasher.

Nevadaref Thu Feb 12, 2009 09:44am

My opinion is that it is total garbage. :mad:
I don't think that the author is qualified to work freshmen games. :eek:

Is that clear enough for you? :D

Welpe Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 578434)
His ruling on play #2 was the first thing that caught my attention. :eek:

I'll read it again tonight and see if I can spot what is wrong with it. ;)

referee99 Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:58pm

Play 2
 
Play 2
A3 takes a leaning jump shot from the lane over B3. B3 is standing upright, but facing the basket with her hands extended straight upward. A3 makes contact with B3's hands and misses the shot.

Ruling 2: Foul by B3. While B3 was in a legally vertical position, she was not in a legal guarding position because she wasn't facing her opponent and should be called for blocking. Sadly, that concept is lost on the BCF.

A similar situation occurs when A3 drives the lane, picks up her dribble and then contacts B3, who is standing in the lane with her hands raised straight above her head. If B3 is facing A3, that is a charge. If B3 is not facing A3, even if she's turned away covering another player, it's a block by B3.

Adam Thu Feb 12, 2009 01:01pm

I can see maybe if B3 jumped in play 2, but only maybe.
The block call, however, that's just stupid.

Mark Padgett Thu Feb 12, 2009 01:13pm

How does he know that B3 wasn't initially facing A3 (which establishes LGP) and then turned around (which maintains LGP)? :cool:

fullor30 Thu Feb 12, 2009 01:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by referee99 (Post 578609)
Play 2
A3 takes a leaning jump shot from the lane over B3. B3 is standing upright, but facing the basket with her hands extended straight upward. A3 makes contact with B3's hands and misses the shot.

Ruling 2: Foul by B3. While B3 was in a legally vertical position, she was not in a legal guarding position because she wasn't facing her opponent and should be called for blocking. Sadly, that concept is lost on the BCF.

A similar situation occurs when A3 drives the lane, picks up her dribble and then contacts B3, who is standing in the lane with her hands raised straight above her head. If B3 is facing A3, that is a charge. If B3 is not facing A3, even if she's turned away covering another player, it's a block by B3.

So with that logic on ruling 2, If I'm recklessly motoring down the court and displace an opposing B player who has his back to me standing still, guarding another player B gets called for the foul?

Amesman Thu Feb 12, 2009 01:31pm

A bit related, but not ... just for confirmation:

What would you have if A1 drives the lane, takes off with a forward-jumping bank shot and plows into stationary B2, who for some reason while guarding A2 on the wing is totally oblivious to the drive? B2 is not in LGP but rather perpendicular/sideways to A1.

Book-learning says it's a block (right?), but common sense seems to say B2 was there by her innocent self first and A1 should have avoided the contact.


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