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-   -   Write unsportsmanship warning in book (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/51523-write-unsportsmanship-warning-book.html)

RookieDude Mon Feb 09, 2009 08:39am
Write unsportsmanship warning in book
 
We were having some refreshments, after the Saturday night games, at a local watering hole...and something came up that I said I would put to the experts here.

We got a transfer from a pretty big association on the other side of the state.
He's done some small college stuff, and seems to be a very good H.S. official with good judgment/mechanics/and rule knowledge.

He mentioned that when he gets a coach that is being "frisky"...one of the tools he has used is to verbally warn the coach about his unsportsmanlike attitude...and the official then tells the scorekeeper to write the warning in the book.

Is this a "tool" that is used in your neck of the woods...actually writing the warning in the book?

FWIW...I told him I could see that working for him...but, really didn't see any NFHS backing for it.

Maybe we don't need their backing for everything....or maybe there is an old interp that says we can use this tool...after further review, it seems that I remember some kind of verbal warning written in the book in the past.

JugglingReferee Mon Feb 09, 2009 08:45am
While I do appreciate the benefit of having specifics of accounts that are outside the norm (or expected) written down, I personally have never thought about doing this sort of thing. My verbal communication will be enough of a tool. ;)

PS: "their", not "there"

BktBallRef Mon Feb 09, 2009 08:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RookieDude (Post 577095)
We were having some refreshments, after the Saturday night games, at a local watering hole...and something came up that I said I would put to the experts here.

We got a transfer from a pretty big association on the other side of the state.
He's done some small college stuff, and seems to be a very good H.S. official with good judgment/mechanics/and rule knowledge.

He mentioned that when he gets a coach that is being "frisky"...one of the tools he has used is to verbally warn the coach about his unsportsmanlike attitude...and the official then tells the scorekeeper to write the warning in the book.

Is this a "tool" that is used in your neck of the woods...actually writing the warning in the book?

FWIW...I told him I could see that working for him...but, really didn't see any NFHS backing for it.

Maybe we don't need there backing for everything....or maybe there is an old interp that says we can use this tool...after further review, it seems that I remember some kind of verbal warning written in the book in the past.
We've been doing it for three years. If we give a coach the stop sign with a "Coach, I've heard enough," or whatever, you formalize the warning by having the scorer note the warning and time in the scorebook. I would also inform both partners.

It serves a two fold purpose.

1- More times than not, we don't end up having to T the guy.

2- If we do, and the coach calls the assignor the next day to complain, the first thing the assignor will say is "Coach, do you have your scorebook with you?"

I was skeptical at first but it's worked very well.

Of course, there are still things that are going to get a T with or without a warning. That's not taken away from us.

RookieDude Mon Feb 09, 2009 09:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 577098)
...If we do, and the coach calls the assignor the next day to complain, the first thing the assignor will say is "Coach, did he warn you. Look in your scorebook."
...and the Coach says, "No, as a matter of fact the other Coach got a warning...and your guy just up and WHACKED me...now how is that fair"?

I hear you Tony...it seems like it could be a good "tool". I just think it could open up another can of worms. Now you may have to explain why he didn't get "his written warning".

I guess it's not to hard to explain different levels of un-sportsmanship...so maybe I'm all wet on the explanation thing.

Thanks for the input...I'll pass it on.

IREFU2 Mon Feb 09, 2009 09:18am
I believe by rule, the only warnings are added to the book are Delay warnings. But, it does sound like a good tool to use.

refguy Mon Feb 09, 2009 09:38am
I know of at least one D1 supervisor that wants this warning in the book too.

PIAA REF Mon Feb 09, 2009 09:51am
Although
 
Although it may be good in theory via rule it would be incorrect for high school. Remember the only unsportsmanlike warning for players or coaches is during our pregame speach. That speach is to be their warning. If they do not comply by rule it is to be a T. (I am not saying that I always follow that, I am just stating the rule)

BktBallRef Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RookieDude (Post 577103)
...and the Coach says, "No, as a matter of fact the other Coach got a warning...and your guy just up and WHACKED me...now how is that fair"?

I hear you Tony...it seems like it could be a good "tool". I just think it could open up another can of worms. Now you may have to explain why he didn't get "his written warning".
As long as I follow what the assignor has said to do, that's not my concern. That's for the assignor to address.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PIAA REF (Post 577126)
Although it may be good in theory via rule it would be incorrect for high school. Remember the only unsportsmanlike warning for players or coaches is during our pregame speach. That speach is to be their warning. If they do not comply by rule it is to be a T. (I am not saying that I always follow that, I am just stating the rule)
There is no rule concerning this. It's a mechanic that we use and is approved by our state association. There's nothing that's "incorrect" about using it.

OHBBREF Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:36am
Ncaa
 
The warning to a coach is an NCAA procedure, If you warn a coach for being out of the box or his inappropriate decorum it is to be put in the book so that if/when you have to serve T it is apparent.
the rules however are clear that no warning is required, so that if necessary feel free to call the butler over the first time the coach tries to be a knucklehead and have him serve it up.

Raymond Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:17am
Something you may want to discuss with your supervisor. I know for a fact one supervisor who despises this practice.

refguy Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 577154)
The warning to a coach is an NCAA procedure, If you warn a coach for being out of the box or his inappropriate decorum it is to be put in the book so that if/when you have to serve T it is apparent.
the rules however are clear that no warning is required, so that if necessary feel free to call the butler over the first time the coach tries to be a knucklehead and have him serve it up.
Do you have a rules or case book reference?

Raymond Mon Feb 09, 2009 02:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 577154)
The warning to a coach is an NCAA procedure, If you warn a coach for being out of the box or his inappropriate decorum it is to be put in the book so that if/when you have to serve T it is apparent.
the rules however are clear that no warning is required, so that if necessary feel free to call the butler over the first time the coach tries to be a knucklehead and have him serve it up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by refguy (Post 577195)
Do you have a rules or case book reference?
(Speaking NCAA-M, don't know if NCAA-W is the same) If an NCAA HC is 'coaching' outside of his box then he is to be officially warned for the first infraction and then 'T'ed for any subsequent infractions. I believe John Adams put out a bulletin lamenting that this procedure is not being followed. I'll try to dig it up.

OHBBREF Mon Feb 09, 2009 02:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by refguy (Post 577195)
Do you have a rules or case book reference?
Case book
A.R. 244. A1 is driving toward the basket when an official, while trailing
the play and advancing in the direction in which the ball is being
advanced, is sworn at by the coach of Team B.
RULING: the official shall withhold the whistle until A1 has either
made or missed the layup. the official then shall sound the whistle
and assess the offending coach a direct technical foul(NCAAW Class A in Mens), which could be flagrant.(Rule 10-5.2.c and Penalty, and 4-29.3.f.2)

Appendix 3 Officiating guidelines
Bench Decorum.
1. Out of the Coaching box. The rule prohibit the head coach from being outside the prescribed caching box. Aftera wrning , a technical foul shall be assessed when a coach is clearlyand completely outside his/her box.

Raymond Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHBBREF (Post 577325)
Case book
A.R. 244. A1 is driving toward the basket when an official, while trailing
the play and advancing in the direction in which the ball is being
advanced, is sworn at by the coach of Team B.
RULING: the official shall withhold the whistle until A1 has either
made or missed the layup. the official then shall sound the whistle
and assess the offending coach a direct technical foul(NCAAW Class A in Mens), which could be flagrant.(Rule 10-5.2.c and Penalty, and 4-29.3.f.2)

Appendix 3 Officiating guidelines
Bench Decorum.
1. Out of the Coaching box. The rule prohibit the head coach from being outside the prescribed caching box. Aftera wrning , a technical foul shall be assessed when a coach is clearlyand completely outside his/her box.
And here is an excerpt from a reminder that John Adams put out earlier this season:

Observations since Bulletin No.1 was issued on 12/12/08.
1. Somebody PLEASE warn a coach for coaching out of the coaching box. I have attended 30+ games in person. I have observed numerous violations of this rule and I have yet to see anyone warn anybo dy! Find the right time to do it, follow the procedures outlined in an earlier memo, and take care of business.


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