Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef (Post 577054)

...the coaches seemed to be complaining when I DID call this a travel. The coaches of the defensive teams did NOT complain when my partners did NOT make this call. Therefore, for consistency within the game, I stopped making this call. I virtually never hear a complaint about this not being called.

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef (Post 577054)

In addition, in games I watch, I almost never see this being called. I think that an important aspect of officiating is consistency.

Originally Posted by JoeT (Post 577101)

So this travel (by your definition) won't start getting called correctly until we complain? Moreover, coaches complaining incorrectly have in part caused you not to call what you believe to be a travel?

You can see how we become "howler monkeys." Many of us work hard to understand the rules to the best of our ability (part of the reason I read this forum so much). There are a lot of rules (and points of emphasis, too) that are knowingly set aside by an official's choice.



I agree that you should be consistent - with your partners and with the actual rules of the game (and the points the NF has asked you to emphasize). Not trying to pick on you so much, but you'd be amazed how often officials tell me something that amounts to "I know that's the rule, but we're not going to call it that way."

You guys have every right to be frustrated with us when we don't know the rules as well as we should, but you can't really have it both ways. I know the rules reasonably well (as do many of my colleagues), and it's frustrating when I'm told which rules we're going to change or set aside on any given day.

-j

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef (Post 576990)

I can tell you that this call is NOT made in my part of the country by 95+% of the officials. To me, this is clearly a travel, but it is not called. I have accepted the fact that it is not called -- I must admit that I do not call it anymore as I was in the less than 5% who called it last season. Defensive coaches do not expect this call to be made, anymore.

The truly perplexing scenario here is that many officials will allow players to do the hop AND then PIVOT or take a jab step before dribbling.

There is no way around the fact that by book rule this is a travel -- as a point of comparison I ask if a player can receive the ball on a jump stop, immediately go up in the air to take a jump shot only to return to the floor with the ball because the defender would have blocked the shot, EVERY OFFICIAL will tell me that this is a travel. But the bunny hop is legal? Same foot action, just a smaller jump.

Once again, I have stopped calling the bunny hop because virtually all other local officials are doing the same. But, clearly, from a pure Rules Book perspective, this is a travel.

The argument that I have heard from fellow officials is that the player has not yet established a pivot foot when he lands on both feet upon receiving the ball (jump stop). They claim that the since the player has not established a pivot foot, the player can land again -- because you can't travel until the pivot foot hits the ground after leaving the ground. Of course, the problem with this logic is that a player could, in theory, bunny hop his way all the way to the basket since both feet would be landing at the same time, no pivot foot would ever be established.

And no, this is not a case of the players sometimes "squaring in the air" BEFORE receiving the ball. These situations are clear cases of shooters -- frequently outside the arc -- catching the ball with both feet on the ground or catching the ball with both feet in the air and then landing, THEN hopping with BOTH feet off the ground and then returning to the ground again before shooting. If you call this in my neck of the woods, you will be in a very small minority of officials.

Originally Posted by vbzebra (Post 577121)

Actually, that is NOT a travel, correct? If its a shot attempt, its either a block or a jump ball in that situation, right? Or am I thinking too much? Or not enough? :D

Originally Posted by zm1283 (Post 577125)

The post that you quoted was saying that the shooter went up but came back down without the ball being touched or being prevented from being released. That is a travel.

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef (Post 577114)

This scenario is not different than the "shrinking strike zone" in baseball. Call a strike at the armpit and the offensive coach would complain and the defensive coach would smile.

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 577169)

For what it's worth, the strike zone in baseball, especially at the MLB and NCAA levels, has actually grown quite a bit over the past few years.

Originally Posted by doubleringer (Post 577159)

I've had numerous conversations with other officials on this play over the last few years. I had a college conference assignor and DI official tell me, "yes it is a travel, no, don't call it." The women's side gave us the green light to make this call in the POE's this season. I like calling it. Allowing a shooter to set their feet illegaly is a huge advantage to the offense.

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef (Post 577074)

This one sounds like a standard lay-up to me. Both feet off the ground the moment the dribble is picked up/pass received.

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 577214)

I think this is one of the cornerstones of a lot of uncalled travels. A large percentage of the time both feet are not off the ground when the ball is caught.
If I cannot tell exactly when, I give the benefit of the doubt. But so many players now want to add something, a hesitation, a ball fake, even a 360 spin move. In cases like this it becomes very obvious that the player lifted both feet and returned them to the floor before the release of the ball. When you make the call, it erupts from every direction:

"HE GETS TWO STEPS ON A LAYUP!!"

Originally Posted by vbzebra (Post 577223)

If he's an octopus and has a 3rd leg acting as a pivot foot.

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 576993)

I think this is a legal play.

NFHS 4-44
ART. 2 . . . A player, who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop, and establish a pivot foot as follows:
a. If both feet are off the floor and the player lands:
1. Simultaneously on both feet, either foot may be the pivot.