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Old Fri Feb 06, 2009, 01:28pm
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OOB deception

I'm sorry if this has been discussed ad nauseam. I've look for a thread and haven't found one. My discussion refers to at the qtr or half the inbounding team A comes out first, sets up like they are going one way, but indeed are going the opposite way. Team B comes out and sets up defense based on how team A is lined up (which is incorrect). Results... easy layup for A.

I saw this happen recently and team B's coach was upset that the R didn't point which way they were going. I don't know if they would have caught on even if he did point and designate color.

I've only found one mention of how this is to be handled:

Quote:
OFFICIALS MANUAL: 217 (2 man); 330 (3 man)
...shall be administered by the Referee at the division line opposite the table. Indicate color and direction, designate the throw-in spot, sound the whistle to alert players that play is about to begin, place the ball at the thrower's disposal.
How do some of the veteran officials handle this if they see this happen? I understand what the rule says but I've had plenty of times where you have to point and indicate two or three times are they are coming out as to who's ball it is. Thoughts? Experiences?
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Old Fri Feb 06, 2009, 01:42pm
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Like it says, "Indicate Color and Direction" point to the spot and put the ball at the thrower's disposal. I have never had a team so this.
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Old Fri Feb 06, 2009, 01:45pm
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When I am the R:
  • at the conclusion of a period, I go to the DL, about a quarter width from the table, and voice "Coaches, 2nd quarter, red ball" all the while pointing the direction that red will be going
  • I then check that the table is a-ok with everything
  • I then see if my P wishes to talk about anything
  • after that is done, I hang around the DL opposite the table so that if players or coaches ask, I can point in red's direction and say "red ball"
  • when the quarter-time break horn sounds, I do it again: "red ball" and point in their direction. I also point to the throw-in spot. I then make it clear by standing in red's backcourt, OB.
  • when the players leave their huddles, and enter the court, I do it again: "red ball" and point direction and throw-in spot
  • after that, if red is able to fool their opponents into playing defense at the wrong end of the court, then I remind myself not to laugh
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Old Fri Feb 06, 2009, 01:47pm
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We always hand the ball to the thrower-in with he/she between us and the basket to which they are going at mid-court (or any throw-in along a side line). This is basketball 101. Any team that doesn't know that.... oh well.
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Old Fri Feb 06, 2009, 01:48pm
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I had this same situation happen to me last week. The coach of the team that was trying to pull this off got upset with me because I pointed in the direction in which the ball was going. The other team quickly realized it and hustled to the other end.
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Old Fri Feb 06, 2009, 02:01pm
Ref Ump Welsch
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I had a similar deal in a JH game the other day, only on an endline inbounding play. One A player went back as if getting ready for defense, and three B players went back with her. That left four A's with two B's, and an easy lay-up. B1 tries to inbound to B2 after the basket, only to have a steal and another easy lay-up. By time B3, B4, and B5 realized what was going on, they hightailed it down for the next throw-in and thought they'd have an easy time breaking the press since there was only four A's pressing them, only to realize on the fast break A1 was already on defense, and a B player went flying into her for a PC foul. Let's just say B's coach went nutso and called a timeout and gave the girls a reaming in the huddle that EVERYONE could hear.
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Old Fri Feb 06, 2009, 03:30pm
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Originally Posted by FBullock View Post
We always hand the ball to the thrower-in with he/she between us and the basket to which they are going at mid-court (or any throw-in along a side line). This is basketball 101. Any team that doesn't know that.... oh well.
So, you're saying you don't ALWAYS point and indicate color?

I saw it happen in a girls jv game. A number of officials who are at that level don't do the "little things" correctly, thats one reason why they are still at that level. I will admit that i had to look up in the officials manual that you are asked to "Indicate color and direction, designate the throw-in spot, sound the whistle to alert players that play is about to begin...". I think this is important to know.
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Old Fri Feb 06, 2009, 03:34pm
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We have a boys JV team around here that runs this play every time they have the ball after the half. They notify the officials and ask them to follow the proper procedure for in-bounding the ball: announce the color and direction, whistle, and put the ball at the thrower's disposal.

I've had one partner forget and try to turn 'em around.
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Old Fri Feb 06, 2009, 03:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
We have a boys JV team around here that runs this play every time they have the ball after the half. They notify the officials and ask them to follow the proper procedure for in-bounding the ball: announce the color and direction, whistle, and put the ball at the thrower's disposal.

I've had one partner forget and try to turn 'em around.
That's interesting that they basically forewarn the official that they are going to be deceptive...anybody else have an ethics conflict with this? Something in my head is screaming "SPIRIT OF THE RULES"...I'm not saying you need to hold their hand and walk them down to the correct end, but if I saw this, I'm pretty sure I would blow my whistle to get everyone's attention and say "we're going THAT way"....if they still don't move then I suppose I've done all I can do...and too bad if the coach has a problem with it...
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Old Fri Feb 06, 2009, 03:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow whistle View Post
That's interesting that they basically forewarn the official that they are going to be deceptive...anybody else have an ethics conflict with this? Something in my head is screaming "SPIRIT OF THE RULES"...I'm not saying you need to hold their hand and walk them down to the correct end, but if I saw this, I'm pretty sure I would blow my whistle to get everyone's attention and say "we're going THAT way"....if they still don't move then I suppose I've done all I can do...and too bad if the coach has a problem with it...
The way I read his post was they followed the rules. They made sure the officials did everything correctly but lined up the other way hoping that the defense would ignore the referee and go guard their man.

I had a kids team years ago who asked me NOT to point. I wasn't sure of exactly what the manual wanted you to do. But I told them that wasnt'd going to happen. I will say that I can say I CANNOT say that I have ALWAYS pointed and said the color.
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Old Fri Feb 06, 2009, 03:47pm
Ref Ump Welsch
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Originally Posted by mbyron View Post
I've had one partner forget and try to turn 'em around.
Was there a pinata involved?
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Old Fri Feb 06, 2009, 03:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch View Post
Was there a pinata involved?
Or the Hokey Pokey?
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Old Fri Feb 06, 2009, 03:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard View Post
The way I read his post was they followed the rules. They made sure the officials did everything correctly but lined up the other way hoping that the defense would ignore the referee and go guard their man.

I had a kids team years ago who asked me NOT to point. I wasn't sure of exactly what the manual wanted you to do. But I told them that wasnt'd going to happen. I will say that I can say I CANNOT say that I have ALWAYS pointed and said the color.
I was referring more to MB's post about how they actually tell the officials what they are doing...
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Old Fri Feb 06, 2009, 04:09pm
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Originally Posted by slow whistle View Post
anybody else have an ethics conflict with this?
No.
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Old Fri Feb 06, 2009, 04:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
No.
Maybe I am crazy, but I could pass the red face test if the coach decided that he didn't like me ruining his plan...
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