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-   -   Pat Knight ejection. (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/51354-pat-knight-ejection.html)

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:37pm

Pat Knight ejection.
 
The following video starts too late to see the whole play the upsets Pat Knight, but had I been the game official Pat Knight would have been gone with just one TF.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78r7lp3pEuE

MTD, Sr.

JRutledge Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:38pm

And it was a great call by the officials.

Peace

mutantducky Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:41pm

I wonder where he gets it from...I'm totally stumped

off top-
GREAT SUPER BOWL!!!! well dud for the 3rd but picked up really well. great tennis final too.

refguy Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 574558)
The following video starts too late to see the whole play the upsets Pat Knight, but had I been the game official Pat Knight would have been gone with just one TF.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78r7lp3pEuE

MTD, Sr.

The call that got his ire up was completely correct. The Tech player grabbed the arm of his opponent and then fell down. I guess the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree.

tjones1 Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:15pm

How many technicals did he get?

JRutledge Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjones1 (Post 574593)
How many technicals did he get?

According to ESPN, two.

Peace

LeeBallanfant Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:18pm

Knight should go on the WWF circuit with those antics. I am sure Vince McMahon would make him a star.

Nevadaref Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:19pm

He completely lost his mind!

It is unfortunate that he will likely be remembered for this incident as I doubt that he will be retained as the HC for next season at Texas Tech.

tjones1 Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 574596)
According to ESPN, two.

Peace

Hmmmm, I'm surprised he didn't get the hat trick for running back onto the court.

Nevadaref Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjones1 (Post 574599)
Hmmmm, I'm surprised he didn't get the hat trick for running back onto the court.

He can't. There's an NCAA rule against it due to the situation involving his father and Teddy V.

tjones1 Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 574602)
He can't. There's an NCAA rule against it due to the situation involving his father and Teddy V.

Ahhh, didn't know that...

I would assume there can still be a penalty by the NCAA if he comes back and won't leave, etc.?

Welpe Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:26pm

The Earl Weavers of basketball...wow.

JugglingReferee Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant (Post 574597)
Knight should go on the WWF circuit with those antics. I am sure Vince McMahon would make him a star.

It's the WWE. They "took the F out".

Nevadaref Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjones1 (Post 574605)
Ahhh, didn't know that...

I would assume there can still be a penalty by the NCAA if he comes back and won't leave, etc.?

Yep, the current NCAA rule says "a maximum of..." So such extra action would go into a report and be handled by the school, conference, or NCAA.

tballump Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:23am

Will the refs get blackballed now.

Wasn't there a really good ref named Soloman who got blackballed years ago for T--ing up Dad and he never was heard from again. Daddy got him completely run out of D1 ball. What was his first name? Wasn't he a known as a very good official until Dad ruined him for giving his greatness a T? Come on, some of you experienced guys help me out here. What was that guys name and where is he now? I believe he was in Referee magazine years ago.

Will these officials face the same fate??? Why would they not get blackballed but the other guy did??

just another ref Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tballump (Post 574663)
Will the refs get blackballed now.

Wasn't there a really good ref named Soloman who got blackballed years ago for T--ing up Dad and he never was heard from again. Daddy got him completely run out of D1 ball. What was his first name? Wasn't he a known as a very good official until Dad ruined him for giving his greatness a T? Come on, some of you experienced guys help me out here. What was that guys name and where is he now? I believe he was in Referee magazine years ago.

Will these officials face the same fate??? Why would they not get blackballed but the other guy did??


I know nothing about what you're talking about, but if there was a guy you speak of that got blackballed and this guy does not, the reason is Pat Knight does not cast nearly as big a shadow as Dad.

btaylor64 Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:34am

Those of you who have stated that the official got it right, please explain how he got it right?? I would really like to know how the official got this play right?

JRutledge Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by tballump (Post 574663)
Will the refs get blackballed now.

At that level, no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tballump (Post 574663)
Wasn't there a really good ref named Soloman who got blackballed years ago for T--ing up Dad and he never was heard from again. Daddy got him completely run out of D1 ball. What was his first name? Wasn't he a known as a very good official until Dad ruined him for giving his greatness a T? Come on, some of you experienced guys help me out here. What was that guys name and where is he now? I believe he was in Referee magazine years ago.

I have never heard of this story or even know the people you are talking about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tballump (Post 574663)
Will these officials face the same fate??? Why would they not get blackballed but the other guy did??

At this level, coaches do not have that kind of power. It is possible that if a coach and an official had a run in, it is possible the supervisor might not put the two together. If the official did something wrong (which it is rather clear he did not in this case) there would be other consequences to their mistake. Running a coach that ran onto the floor is not likely going to be seen as a mistake. Even if the officials did not do something correct, I doubt this play would be something they would have to worry about. And I doubt that the supervisor gives a damn what little Knight thinks with the way his behavior was put on display.

Peace

JRutledge Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by btaylor64 (Post 574672)
Those of you who have stated that the official got it right, please explain how he got it right?? I would really like to know how the official got this play right?

The Texas Tech player pushed out the Nebraska player. Then as the Nebraska player tried to get away, the Tech player held the Nebraska player with his left arm and the Nebraska player could not make a reasonable play on the ball. The Tech player than fell down because he had already leaned and pushed the Nebraska player a few feet from his original sport. Not only is that a foul in a normal situation that was a rough play which is preached to officials at that level all the time. It was the only call to make and the right call by that official.

Peace

BillyMac Mon Feb 02, 2009 07:22am

WWE Versus WWF, Who Would Win ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 574618)
It's the WWE. They "took the F out".

It was being confused with the World Wildlife Federation. For years I thought I was sending my checks to an organization that helped protect cute little monkeys, penguins, etc., when, in fact, I was donating money to pay for replacing Hulk Hogan's ripped T-Shirts.

GoodwillRef Mon Feb 02, 2009 07:22am

We will see hom many games the BIG 12 gives Pat off for his actions.

I will guess 2 games.

ripcord51 Mon Feb 02, 2009 07:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 574714)
It was being confused with the World Wildlife Federation. For years I thought I was sending my checks to an organization that helped protect cute little monkeys, penguins, etc., when, in fact, I was donating money to pay for replacing Hulk Hogan's ripped T-Shirts.


And isn't wife Linda the CEO who would actually then be in charge of hiring Pat Knight if he wanted to go that direction as an earlier poster mentioned. Or if he wanted to be part of Monday Night Raw would not Stephanie McMahon be in charge of hiring him since she is the GM of Raw?

grunewar Mon Feb 02, 2009 08:07am

Billy, Billy, Billy.....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 574714)
It was being confused with the World Wildlife Federation. For years I thought I was sending my checks to an organization that helped protect cute little monkeys, penguins, etc., when, in fact, I was donating money to pay for replacing Hulk Hogan's ripped T-Shirts.

You were sending your money to protect ugly large monkeys, penguins, etc!

Forksref Mon Feb 02, 2009 08:13am

Couldn't he find a chair?

Ref Ump Welsch Mon Feb 02, 2009 08:25am

Being local to the TV stations that carry the Nebraska Huskers, I saw the entire tirade on all of the 10:00 newscasts at the bar after attending a JUCO game. Pat's first T was for going onto the court in protest of the foul call, his second was for torking off at one of the other officials while the first one was going to the table to report the first T.

Huntin' Ref Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:43am

Pat Knight is nothing like his father. How often do you see him recieve a Technical foul? He was frustrated and blew up, big deal. I actually had the priveledge of meeting him and he is a great person......again, nothing like his father. The reason this is making news is that it isn't like him to do this. I watched him coach in the CBA (I think it was that league) and he was always good to officials.

Raymond Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntin' Ref (Post 574818)
Pat Knight is nothing like his father. How often do you see him recieve a Technical foul? He was frustrated and blew up, big deal. I actually had the priveledge of meeting him and he is a great person......again, nothing like his father. The reason this is making news is that it isn't like him to do this. I watched him coach in the CBA (I think it was that league) and he was always good to officials.

There is a difference between "blowing up" and running 50 feet across the floor to jump in the face of an official. An easily defendable Flagrant T if the official had so chosen. Then he returns from the tunnel and has to be restrained by an assistant. :rolleyes:

He may be a great person and nothing like his father off the court, but on the court he exhibited classic Bobby Knight behavior in this situation.

walter Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 574680)
The Texas Tech player pushed out the Nebraska player. Then as the Nebraska player tried to get away, the Tech player held the Nebraska player with his left arm and the Nebraska player could not make a reasonable play on the ball. The Tech player than fell down because he had already leaned and pushed the Nebraska player a few feet from his original sport. Not only is that a foul in a normal situation that was a rough play which is preached to officials at that level all the time. It was the only call to make and the right call by that official.

Peace

Right on, Rut. If you watch the "C", he points to the Tech player as well as it appears they had a double whistle but the lead comes out hard and takes it. If you really watch at the beginning, the tech player gets up underneath the Nebraska player and rides him out. The amazing thing is we can all probably recall situations where coaches and players believe this is simply "boxing out".

Rich Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntin' Ref (Post 574818)
Pat Knight is nothing like his father. How often do you see him recieve a Technical foul? He was frustrated and blew up, big deal. I actually had the priveledge of meeting him and he is a great person......again, nothing like his father. The reason this is making news is that it isn't like him to do this. I watched him coach in the CBA (I think it was that league) and he was always good to officials.

Well, he wasn't good in this incident. Getting a T or even getting ejected is one thing. Pat crossed over a few additional lines in this tirade.

fullor30 Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by btaylor64 (Post 574672)
Those of you who have stated that the official got it right, please explain how he got it right?? I would really like to know how the official got this play right?

Kudos to official who saw the WHOLE play. It would be very easy to hit Nebraska player with foul as tech player flops on his behind. Tech player initiates contact, displaces, pushes Nebraska player, then due to his momentum, flops.

The right call.

Knight is an idiot.

bigdogrunnin Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:31pm

Link to ESPN video:

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The 3 officials on that game were: Rick Randall (13 yrs. D-1), J.B. Caldwell (13 yrs. D-1), Terry Oglesby (6 yrs. D-1)

All 3 are experienced officials, and let's just say that Dale Kelley, the Big 12 Coordinator of Officials wouldn't let a coach run off a good official and ruin their career. Especially when the officials got the call right.

Silly rabbit . . . tricks are for kids. :rolleyes:

Texas Aggie Mon Feb 02, 2009 02:17pm

It doesn't help that the idiot announcer on the video either didn't see or doesn't realize that the tech player was the one that initiated the contact.

Adam Mon Feb 02, 2009 05:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 574598)
It is unfortunate that he will likely be remembered for this incident as I doubt that he will be retained as the HC for next season at Texas Tech.

Maybe that's why Daddy is suddenly interested in coaching again. He needs another job to groom Jr. for.

eyezen Mon Feb 02, 2009 05:48pm

Its one thing to come out on the court to protest a call, but that was ridiculous, sprinting and gesturing ala KoKo Costanza all the way across mid court opposite table. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that at any level.

Mark Padgett Mon Feb 02, 2009 05:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 574946)
It doesn't help that the idiot announcer on the video either didn't see or doesn't realize that the tech player was the one that initiated the contact.

What a shock - an announcer that doesn't get it!!! :eek:

BillyMac Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:14pm

If You Disagree With Her, She Throws A Chair At You Across The Boardroom Table ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ripcord51 (Post 574720)
Isn't wife Linda the CEO?

Linda McMahon was recently named to the Connecticut State Board of Education. Really. Seriously. You can't make this stuff up.

HawkeyeCubP Tue Feb 03, 2009 02:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by btaylor64 (Post 574672)
Those of you who have stated that the official got it right, please explain how he got it right?? I would really like to know how the official got this play right?

It was a hold on the Texas Tech player. The Nebraska player did nothing illegal. The official called the hold on the Texas Tech player.

fullor30 Tue Feb 03, 2009 09:05am

That settles it...........showed it to my 13 year old son and asked who should be charged with the foul. "That's easy Dad, the guy in white uniform on the floor"

Ref Ump Welsch Tue Feb 03, 2009 09:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 575090)
Linda McMahon was recently named to the Connecticut State Board of Education. Really. Seriously. You can't make this stuff up.

Hmmm...wonder if corporal punishment will become the norm again in Connecticut? :D

Ref Ump Welsch Tue Feb 03, 2009 09:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by fullor30 (Post 575202)
That settles it...........showed it to my 13 year old son and asked who should be charged with the foul. "That's easy Dad, the guy in white uniform on the floor"

I like your kid's thinking. He'll probably fast-track as an official once he gets started! :)

BTW, the Big 12 reprimanded Knight for his action, saying it violated the league's policy on public criticism of the officials. Nice.

Adam Tue Feb 03, 2009 09:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP (Post 575172)
It was a hold on the Texas Tech player. The Nebraska player did nothing illegal. The official called the hold on the Texas Tech player.

Maybe Mr. Taylor can tell us how they got it wrong.

btaylor64 Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 575220)
Maybe Mr. Taylor can tell us how they got it wrong.

Nope not going to tell anything. I only got to see the play a couple of times and before seeing another replay i did not see the Texas Tech player clamp up the Nebraska player although i do disagree with JRut's earlier statement about this being a rough play. The tech player was just trying to perform a normal box out and the nebraska player was giving ground and then finally as the tech player is going down he clamps up the nebraska player and up until the moment of the clamp up i would not have had a foul.

GoodwillRef Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:34pm

I am shocked that he wasn't suspended by Texas Tech or the Big 12...he ran on the court TWICE!

JRutledge Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by btaylor64 (Post 575264)
Nope not going to tell anything. I only got to see the play a couple of times and before seeing another replay i did not see the Texas Tech player clamp up the Nebraska player although i do disagree with JRut's earlier statement about this being a rough play. The tech player was just trying to perform a normal box out and the nebraska player was giving ground and then finally as the tech player is going down he clamps up the nebraska player and up until the moment of the clamp up i would not have had a foul.

Well it really does not matter what you think of my opinion, because this play is an example of what they want called. Trying to box out someone is holding your position without holding, pushing and causing a violent reaction. You do not have to agree with me, the NCAA has not only spoken on this, and they have shown video of these kinds of plays.

BTW, go look at eofficial.com under the NCAA Men's Basketball section. Look under the NCAA Training Video under Chapter 6 and 11 and shows plays consistent with the NCAA Philosophy. Clearly they do not think what the TT player is legal.

Peace

Jurassic Referee Tue Feb 03, 2009 03:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 575349)
Well it really does not matter what you think of my opinion, because this play is an example of what they want called. Trying to box out someone is holding your position without holding, pushing and causing a violent reaction. You do not have to agree with me, the NCAA has not only spoken on this, and they have shown video of these kinds of plays.

BTW, go look at eofficial.com under the NCAA Men's Basketball section. Look under the NCAA Training Video under Chapter 6 and 11 and shows plays consistent with the NCAA Philosophy. Clearly they do not think what the TT player is legal.

Fwiw, I think your opinion is 114% correct. It's an obvious foul and not really a tough call either.

Bad Zebra Tue Feb 03, 2009 03:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntin' Ref (Post 574818)
Pat Knight is nothing like his father.

I disagree. Great call by first official. Knight is truly an idiot and proves that the self-control gene is missing from his DNA just as it was from his father's.

I predict that all three officials will be working games long after Knight, Jr. is a bad memory for all (officials, TT, and the NCAA).


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