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bc7 Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:13pm

Flagrant Foul Question
 
Last night in Girls Sophomore game, I had the following situation:

A1 gets a steal and is on a fast break, B1 commits a flagrant foul, two arms extended throwing girl into the wall (not good). My partner is the lead, we both have the foul. After making sure the girl is getting medical attention we huddle and decide that it was a flagrant foul and B1 is ejected.

My question is this: I thought A1 (or designated shooter) only gets 2 FT's, and then A gets the ball at POI. He thought she should get 4 FT's and the ball. Since I am a rookie official and he was the R, we went with 4 FT's and the ball. We received no argument from anyone, but did question it after the game.

The only reference in the rule book that I can find is 10-11-4 which states 2 FT's for an intentional or flagrant foul plus the ball.

Any thoughts?

Adam Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bc7 (Post 574230)
The only reference in the rule book that I can find is 10-11-4 which states 2 FT's for an intentional or flagrant foul plus the ball.

Any thoughts?

Let me guess, your partner thought she should get two for the shooting foul and two for the flagrant. IT'S ONLY ONE FOUL! Therefore, only one penalty, for the flagrant.
The reason that's the only reference you could find is because that's the correct reference. Fouled player (or sub, if applicable) must shoot, and the ball will be taken out at the spot of the foul.

JugglingReferee Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bc7 (Post 574230)
Last night in Girls Sophomore game, I had the following situation:

A1 gets a steal and is on a fast break, B1 commits a flagrant foul, two arms extended throwing girl into the wall (not good). My partner is the lead, we both have the foul. After making sure the girl is getting medical attention we huddle and decide that it was a flagrant foul and B1 is ejected.

My question is this: I thought A1 (or designated shooter) only gets 2 FT's, and then A gets the ball at POI. He thought she should get 4 FT's and the ball. Since I am a rookie official and he was the R, we went with 4 FT's and the ball. We received no argument from anyone, but did question it after the game.

The only reference in the rule book that I can find is 10-11-4 which states 2 FT's for an intentional or flagrant foul plus the ball.

Any thoughts?

One foul = One penalty.

I believe it is a Flagrant Intentional Personal Foul. A1 shoots the 2 shots + throw-in nearest foul 4-19-4.

bc7 Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:30pm

He never specifically said anything about 2 for the flagrant, and 2 for the personal, but that was what I took from it.

Thanks for the quick responses.

Lotto Sat Jan 31, 2009 01:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 574234)
One foul = One penalty.

I believe it is a Flagrant Intentional Personal Foul. A1 shoots the 2 shots + throw-in nearest foul 4-19-4.

Flagrant personal foul, without the "intentional."

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Sat Jan 31, 2009 02:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotto (Post 574246)
Flagrant personal foul, without the "intentional."


But a flagrant could be intentional, :D.

MTD, Sr.

Lotto Sat Jan 31, 2009 07:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 574252)
But a flagrant could be intentional.

I try to help, and this is what I get. Great. :p

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotto (Post 574313)
I try to help, and this is what I get. Great. :p


Not good deed goes unpunished. :D

MTD, Sr.

CMHCoachNRef Sun Feb 01, 2009 08:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bc7 (Post 574230)
Last night in Girls Sophomore game, I had the following situation:

A1 gets a steal and is on a fast break, B1 commits a flagrant foul, two arms extended throwing girl into the wall (not good). My partner is the lead, we both have the foul. After making sure the girl is getting medical attention we huddle and decide that it was a flagrant foul and B1 is ejected.

My question is this: I thought A1 (or designated shooter) only gets 2 FT's, and then A gets the ball at POI. He thought she should get 4 FT's and the ball. Since I am a rookie official and he was the R, we went with 4 FT's and the ball. We received no argument from anyone, but did question it after the game.

The only reference in the rule book that I can find is 10-11-4 which states 2 FT's for an intentional or flagrant foul plus the ball.

Any thoughts?

To follow the veteran's logic, had the foul occurred on a three point shot (and been part of a multiple foul), he would have awarded:
1. 3 shots for the shooting foul,
2. 3 more shots for the second of two shooting fouls,
3. 2 shots for the flagrant foul,
and, of course, the ball as well.....hmmmmmmm.....

BktBallRef Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 574234)
One foul = One penalty.

I believe it is a Flagrant Intentional Personal Foul. A1 shoots the 2 shots + throw-in nearest foul 4-19-4.

Jug, it's just a flagrant personal foul. Whether the contact is intentional or unintentional has no bearing.

mbyron Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 574410)
Jug, it's just a flagrant personal foul. Whether the contact is intentional or unintentional has no bearing.

That means 2 FT's for A1 (or sub) but NOT the ball, right? Shoot FT's with players in the lane, and play as usual after the second attempt?

jearef Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 574423)
That means 2 FT's for A1 (or sub) but NOT the ball, right? Shoot FT's with players in the lane, and play as usual after the second attempt?

Flagrant personal foul. Clear the lane. Shoot the two free throws. Ball to the offended team at the spot nearest to where the foul was committed.


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