Intentional foul?

[mGONZ]

I just started refereeing last year. Nothing serious, just intramural games at my former playground and grammar school. I was just wondering if I got this call right in a 12 and 13 year old girls game. Team A had inbounded the ball at the PG was dribbling down the sideline and was being guarded by the PG from team B. I was trailing the play and on the sideline. Another defensive player came at an angle from behind the player handling the ball and extended both of her hands and shoved her in the small of the back. Was I correct to call an intentional foul in this situation? Im new here so thanks for the help!!

[Adam]

Seems like a good intentional to me, especially with two hands in the back. I'm guessing you caught grief for it.

Get used to that.

[JugglingReferee]

I'm with Snaq on this one. There does not appear to be any play on the ball. Actions such as "coming from behind" (out of the visual confines of the opponent) coupled with excessive contact such as a two-handed push in the back are definite elements that need to be curtailed. This is why the penalty for acts like this one are greater than that of a common foul.

Good call!

[mGONZ]

Thanks guys. That is exactly what I told the coach (who did not agree). It was the fact that she did not go for the ball, and the two hands that made me call the intentional. I just needed a little reassurance; Im glad I found this site because I am sure I will need some help again soon. Thanks again!!

[DonInKansas]

A play has to be on the ball to avoid an intentional.

I know of no way to get to the ball through a player's back. Good call amigo; welcome to the boards.

[mutantducky]

awful call. You made a 12 year old girl cry. Terrible terrible. She quit basketball and later joined a militant lesbian rock band called Dick Cheney RULEZ the Universe.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by mGONZ

just intramural games at my former playground and grammar school.

Originally Posted by mGONZ

Thanks guys. That is exactly what I told the coach (who did not agree).

Good call.

Another issue you'll run into at this level is you may be one of the only refs in the league making this call! (Along with calling player-control and team-control fouls, and telling the coaches "there's no such call as over the back.")

At this level or lower rec level, many of the coaches, players, and officials only know the basics and aren't used to someone "really" knowing the rules.

It's better to be right and explain it by the book than to let it go. Good job!

[IREFU2]

Good call, no brainer.......

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Seems like a good intentional to me, especially with two hands in the back.

Agree.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'm guessing you caught grief for it. Get used to that.

Definitely agree. (Fixed your paragraphing, Snaqs )

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by DonInKansas

A play has to be on the ball to avoid an intentional.

I will disagree with this statement slightly - a player can be "playing the ball", but with excessive contact, can still be called for an intentional foul.

Otherwise, I agree with others have posted. Keep coming back here to learn!

[Adam]

I would also add that lots of common fouls are not "playing the ball." Not all legitimate defense involves going after the ball; sometimes it involves taking a position designed to prevent offensive advance. It's what 99% of PC calls involve.

This doesn't even take into account off-ball fouls (pushing through screens, for example.)

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I would also add that lots of common fouls are not "playing the ball." Not all legitimate defense involves going after the ball; sometimes it involves taking a position designed to prevent offensive advance. It's what 99% of PC calls involve.

This doesn't even take into account off-ball fouls (pushing through screens, for example.)

I agree with Bob.

(Oh, wait, he didn't even post to this thread...)

[BillyMac]

If there’s no play on the ball, if the defense grabs the jersey, or pushes from behind, or bear hugs the offensive player, we should consider an intentional foul. These are not basketball plays and should be penalized as intentional.

Good call. I had a similar play in similar aged group several years ago. A1 made a good clean steal, and was on a break-away fast break lay-up when B1 shoved him in the middle of the back. Basket scored, and I called the intentional. Caught grief from B's coach, his claims: 1) basket was good, therefore can't have an intentional, and 2) the play was being made on the person who had the ball, and an intentional can only be on someone who didn't have the ball. I almost wanted to stop the game, and do a lesson on what an intentional foul is for the benefit of everyone, because there were fans jeering the call as well. Unbelieveable!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

I almost wanted to stop the game, and do a lesson on what an intentional foul is for the benefit of everyone, because there were fans jeering the call as well.

That's exactly why we have the Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules list.