Player pushes Official

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not required. One flagrant is plenty.

What do you base booting the head coach on?

No rule basis. The T for pushing the official was his 5th foul, so he wasn't bench personnel.

add up to a head coaches disqualification.

When a player fouls out he becomes bench personell, in Ct anyway!!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Suppref

add up to a head coaches disqualification.

When a player fouls out he becomes bench personell, in Ct anyway!!

Not until the coach has been notified.

Where are you getting the three indirects here?

The first two techs were on players, not the bench. The 2nd one happened to be the player's fifth foul, but this does not get assigned to the HC.

The third one would be an indirect, but that's it.

How does the coach get DQ'd here?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not until the coach has been notified.

Where are you getting the three indirects here?

The first two techs were on players, not the bench. The 2nd one happened to be the player's fifth foul, but this does not get assigned to the HC.

The third one would be an indirect, but that's it.

How does the coach get DQ'd here?

I understand that emails don't show inflection, however, what I was try to say is once the player pushes the official, he's should be ejected, now he's bench personell, at this point every time he said or did something from his location on the floor to the bench, I would add another T. When we get to three the coach is gone too. I think if the coach has to leave because of player behavior, there will be repercussions that the player will have to deal with later.

I've actually done this very procedure in a adult rec league, flag foul, he disagreed, T, T ,T - see ya in a couple of weeks. Sometimes you just have to show 'em who's in charge.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Suppref

I understand that emails don't show inflection, however, what I was try to say is once the player pushes the official, he's should be ejected, now he's bench personell, at this point every time he said or did something from his location on the floor to the bench, I would add another T. When we get to three the coach is gone too. I think if the coach has to leave because of player behavior, there will be repercussions that the player will have to deal with later.

I've actually done this very procedure in a adult rec league, flag foul, he disagreed, T, T ,T - see ya in a couple of weeks. Sometimes you just have to show 'em who's in charge.

Rediculous to go looking for stuff in this case. It would be a quick way to end my career.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Suppref

I understand that emails don't show inflection, however, what I was try to say is once the player pushes the official, he's should be ejected, now he's bench personell, at this point every time he said or did something from his location on the floor to the bench, I would add another T. When we get to three the coach is gone too. I think if the coach has to leave because of player behavior, there will be repercussions that the player will have to deal with later.

I've actually done this very procedure in a adult rec league, flag foul, he disagreed, T, T ,T - see ya in a couple of weeks. Sometimes you just have to show 'em who's in charge.

As already stated, you are completely wrong. The player isn't officially disqualified and become bench personnel until his head coach is notified by an official. Sez so right in NFHS rule 4-14-2. Iow the coach will NOT receive any indirect "T"s until after you have notified him of the players disqualification.

If you used that procedure in an adult rec league, you screwed the coach with your failure to know the appropriate and applicable rule.

If you're gonna show 'em who's in charge, it's not a bad idea to learn the rules first.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

As already stated, you are completely wrong. The player isn't officially disqualified and become bench personnel until his head coach is notified by an official. Sez so right in NFHS rule 4-14-2. Iow the coach will receive any indirect "T"s intil you notify him of the players disqualification.

Of you did that porocedure in an adult rec league, you screwed the coach with your failure to know the appropriate rule.

If you're gonna show 'em who's in charge, it's not a bad idea to learn the rules first.

Looks to me like he's gonna take the opportunity to find three more T's against the perpetrator for the sole purpose of ejecting the coach. That's even worse than not knowing the rules, IMO.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

As already stated, you are completely wrong. The player isn't officially disqualified and become bench personnel until his head coach is notified by an official. Sez so right in NFHS rule 4-14-2. Iow the coach will NOT receive any indirect "T"s until after you have notified him of the players disqualification.

If you used that procedure in an adult rec league, you screwed the coach with your failure to know the appropriate and applicable rule.

If you're gonna show 'em who's in charge, it's not a bad idea to learn the rules first.

Clearly, I shouldn't post anything, I should just read and learn from you masters.

I was just trying to make a point that as officiating is my avocation, that a frustrated athlete should in no way be able to disrespect me as a person or official.

And to call me out for "If you're gonna show 'em who's in charge, it's not a bad idea to learn the rules first." is a little harsh. I've been involved in basketball for 40 years, 20 as an official. I know we try to get it right but lighten up a little.

This forum will not hear from me again.

Good luck!

[Adam]

You're the one who said you'd find Ts where there aren't any for the sole purpose of DQing the head coach.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You're the one who said you'd find Ts where there aren't any for the sole purpose of DQing the head coach.

A player is the direct extension of the coach, if the player thinks pushing an official (read me), then the coach is not doing his job.

I like a good arguement as much as the next guy, this forum is just not the place to take things as seriously as was directed at me.

--

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Suppref

This forum will not hear from me again.

Good luck!

Did our wish come true?

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Suppref

add up to a head coaches disqualification.

When a player fouls out he becomes bench personell, in Ct anyway!!

that is true but the incident occured while he was a player not bench personell to the technical can not be applied to the coach indirectly.
so you have
two technicals on players and a bench technical
which equals one indirect on the coach

even if you whacked the kid twice that would still only be two indirect on the coach and it requires three indirect or combination of two and a direct to eject the coach.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Suppref

add up to a head coaches disqualification.

When a player fouls out he becomes bench personell, in Ct anyway!!

Suppref:

I do not know to which IAABO Board you belong (I don't have either my H.S. or College IABBO Handbooks in front of me to look up what Board covers Norwalk), but if I were you I would start studying the rule book and the Refresher Exam. I know that there are questions on the Refresher Exam (because I am on the IAABO Rules Examination Committee) that deal with when a disqualified player becomes bench personnel.

So, my charge to you is to tell me Forum when does a DQ'ed player becomes bench personnel?

MTD, Sr.


P.S. Suppref, I just checked the IAABO website. Norwalk, is in Board #9, and Board #9's Intepreter/Trainer is Lou Filippetti, and Lou is a personal friend of mine, so you had better have the correct answer for the Forum.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Suppref:

I do not know to which IAABO Board you belong (I don't have either my H.S. or College IABBO Handbooks in front of me to look up what Board covers Norwalk), but if I were you I would start studying the rule book and the Refresher Exam. I know that there are questions on the Refresher Exam (because I am on the IAABO Rules Examination Committee) that deal with when a disqualified player becomes bench personnel.

So, my charge to you is to tell me Forum when does a DQ'ed player becomes bench personnel?

MTD, Sr.


P.S. Suppref, I just checked the IAABO website. Norwalk, is in Board #9, and Board #9's Intepreter/Trainer is Lou Filippetti, and Lou is a personal friend of mine, so you had better have the correct answer for the Forum.

Mark, he knows the rule. He's advocating "finding" three more techs on him after he's DQd so his coach can feel the pain, too.

[Texas Aggie]

At the risk of repetition, keep in mind that the player isn't DQed until the coach is notified. If you call what amounts to a fifth foul (or a flagrant, or second T), the player is not DQed until you notify the coach. So don't think that you can't make another appropriate call just because you know its his fifth foul (or whatever).

this forum is just not the place to take things as seriously as was directed at me.

If you are offended at being called out for being wrong, I have a hard time believing you've officiated basketball for 20 years. We take being right and wrong on this forum seriously, just as we should.

Your opinion about the coach's relationship to his or her players is relevant to a discussion, but not to a ruling. The rule itself, already stated, is clear.

I actually think you are on to something: a DQ'd player (and players are always DQed and not ejected, regardless of the offense) shouldn't get a free verbal shot at the officials before the coach is notified. Yes, a T would give them 2 shots, but with free throw shooting these days...

Anyway, I'd support a change to make a coach more responsible for his soon to be DQed players still on the floor. But for now, we work the rule as written.

[Smitty]

The post you're responding to is 11 months old. Not sure why 'mathuc' felt compelled to share his not very compelling anecdote and resurrect this thread....