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-   -   Travel or no travel (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/51199-travel-no-travel.html)

dbking Mon Jan 26, 2009 09:15am

Travel or no travel
 
Partner and I disagreed on a play last night.... Both experienced varisty officials working a 6th grade league game on Sunday. Teams are B2 level, not real skilled at bball.

A1 is dribbling up the sideline. He passes to a team mate but does not have a good grasp on the ball. The ball only travels about half of the distance to his teammate. His momentum makes him arrive at the ball first. He tries to pick up the ball but again does not get a good grasp on it. The ball drops to the floor and bounces back into his hands. He now has control of the ball.

My partner called double dribble on him. At the next time out, I told him he did not travel. I believe that he fumbled the pass and fumbled the pick up. He agreed on both. I believe that he can do that and partner said it was double dribble, then changed his mind to say it was traveling.

I have read every case in this years book and can find nothing close. Any thought on this one????

IREFU2 Mon Jan 26, 2009 09:18am

Technically, if he tried to pass it, its not a fumble. I probably would have left it alone.

Zoochy Mon Jan 26, 2009 09:30am

Per your description, it sounds like A1 recovered his own pass.
That's a violation.

BktBallRef Mon Jan 26, 2009 09:30am

You have to decide if he passed the ball or he fumbled the ball.

If he fumbled it, it's nothing.

If he passed it, by rule, it's an illegal dribble when he touches it again.

Suppref Mon Jan 26, 2009 09:36am

You can...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dbking (Post 572371)
Partner and I disagreed on a play last night.... Both experienced varisty officials working a 6th grade league game on Sunday. Teams are B2 level, not real skilled at bball.

A1 is dribbling up the sideline. He passes to a team mate but does not have a good grasp on the ball. The ball only travels about half of the distance to his teammate. His momentum makes him arrive at the ball first. He tries to pick up the ball but again does not get a good grasp on it. The ball drops to the floor and bounces back into his hands. He now has control of the ball.

My partner called double dribble on him. At the next time out, I told him he did not travel. I believe that he fumbled the pass and fumbled the pick up. He agreed on both. I believe that he can do that and partner said it was double dribble, then changed his mind to say it was traveling.

I have read every case in this years book and can find nothing close. Any thought on this one????

Fumble, dribble, fumble but not dribble, fumble, dribble.

Your situation has him dribble, fumble, then recover. Ugly but no call.

refguy Mon Jan 26, 2009 09:43am

It's a double dribble. He had already dribbled and then passed the ball, which constitutes another dribble if he is the first to touch. If he had passed to a teammate before dribbling and went and touched it first, legal.

BLydic Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suppref (Post 572378)
Fumble, dribble, fumble but not dribble, fumble, dribble.

Your situation has him dribble, fumble, then recover. Ugly but no call.

Not wanting to hijack, but offer another situation regarding travel or not ...

A big girl, not used to handling the ball, loses control as she attempts to end her dribble in the frontcourt. As she is earnestly attempting to grab the loose ball (which never hits the court), her feet shuffle before gaining control. She makes a successful pass to her team mate, I've got ugly but no call and the opposing coaches wanted a travel. In post game, observer stated that this play needed to be called a travel. What am I missing?

jdw3018 Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLydic (Post 572395)
Not wanting to hijack, but offer another situation regarding travel or not ...

A big girl, not used to handling the ball, loses control as she attempts to end her dribble in the frontcourt. As she is earnestly attempting to grab the loose ball (which never hits the court), her feet shuffle before gaining control. She makes a successful pass to her team mate, I've got ugly but no call and the opposing coaches wanted a travel. In post game, observer stated that this play needed to be called a travel. What am I missing?

From your description this is nothing but an ugly play. Observer is misinformed, but always right. ;)

BktBallRef Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLydic (Post 572395)
In post game, observer stated that this play needed to be called a travel. What am I missing?

You're missing an observer with strong rules knowledge.

OHBBREF Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdw3018 (Post 572409)
From your description this is nothing but an ugly play. Observer is misinformed, but always right. ;)

Just like the guy who gave three shots on the intentional after a made basket? :eek:

OHBBREF Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:48pm

Sorry that was a rule interpretor -
I don't want to disparage observers.

Fritz Mon Jan 26, 2009 02:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 572376)
You have to decide if he passed the ball or he fumbled the ball.

If he fumbled it, it's nothing.

If he passed it, by rule, it's an illegal dribble when he touches it again.

Had a different take on this last night. A1 driving the baseline and loses control of the ball as he jumps up for the shot. Ball comes out of his hands about 2 feet. He grabs it and comes back down. Then starts dribbling again. I whistled a double dribble but his coach wanted nothing, stating that no control on the shot. I reasoned that he fumbled the ball before getting an actual shot off. Probably a HTBT, but curious if I was on the right track.

Adam Mon Jan 26, 2009 02:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fritz (Post 572552)
Had a different take on this last night. A1 driving the baseline and loses control of the ball as he jumps up for the shot. Ball comes out of his hands about 2 feet. He grabs it and comes back down. Then starts dribbling again. I whistled a double dribble but his coach wanted nothing, stating that no control on the shot. I reasoned that he fumbled the ball before getting an actual shot off. Probably a HTBT, but curious if I was on the right track.

I think you were right.


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