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-   -   Whatcha got? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/51115-whatcha-got.html)

Ref Ump Welsch Thu Jan 22, 2009 01:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sseltser (Post 571242)
I believe he called a block on 30 because at the very end (last few frames) he starts to put his hands up in closed fists to emphasize the blocking foul. Of course, this is just a guess.
I see what you're saying, but one thing I wonder, why he didn't do the score the basket "chop" when he called the foul? That would have cleared up it was a defensive foul for me at first, but he just held his fist up and then went off to report. If I were observing, I'd be puzzled till his report what it was.

jdw3018 Thu Jan 22, 2009 01:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyezen (Post 571187)
Anderson, SC isn't that the home of Radio?
It is.

Radio still travels with the TL Hanna High School sports teams. I got to meet him last year before one of their games. It is commonly known as an official here that when you have TL Hanna one of your pregame duties is to go shake hands with Radio.

JugglingReferee Thu Jan 22, 2009 02:04pm
The more I watch this, the more I see that this is a horrible call. I'm surprised there's no indication of Coach B's disagreement.

AKOFL Thu Jan 22, 2009 02:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence (Post 571216)
Would anyone call a T on the player in white who bends down and appears to be talking smack to the defender?
As the lead official I definately would have whacked that kid for bending down and saying something. You could tell he came to his sences preety quick and got out of there. This play (block-charge) is 50-50 at best, and I think (hope) coaches realize that. We have the benefit of watching it over and over and seeing it clearly. That is not always the case on the floor, as I'm sure we are all aware. That said, this official certainly needed to do a few things differently. His partners should have been paying closer attention, after the inital whistle blew, to activiy going on. No rest for the wicked and thats us officials on the court.:p

Adam Thu Jan 22, 2009 02:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKOFL (Post 571274)
As the lead official I definately would have whacked that kid for bending down and saying something. You could tell he came to his sences preety quick and got out of there. This play (block-charge) is 50-50 at best, and I think (hope) coaches realize that. We have the benefit of watching it over and over and seeing it clearly. That is not always the case on the floor, as I'm sure we are all aware. That said, this official certainly needed to do a few things differently. His partners should have been paying closer attention, after the inital whistle blew, to activiy going on. No rest for the wicked and thats us officials on the court.:p
I'm sorry, but I don't see this as a 50-50 play. My first viewing told me it was an easy charge; replay only confirmed it. The defender had roots.

Spence Thu Jan 22, 2009 02:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 571281)
I'm sorry, but I don't see this as a 50-50 play. My first viewing told me it was an easy charge; replay only confirmed it. The defender had roots.
It looks like the shooter's leg hit the defender in the left shoulder. Is the shoulder part of the torso?

Amesman Thu Jan 22, 2009 02:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch (Post 571250)
I see what you're saying, but one thing I wonder, why he didn't do the score the basket "chop" when he called the foul? That would have cleared up it was a defensive foul for me at first, but he just held his fist up and then went off to report. If I were observing, I'd be puzzled till his report what it was.
Yep, and this fact probably helped wipe out a taunting T, as alluded to earlier. First inclination was to roast L for not closing down and seeing the in-your-face (albeit quick) move of A2. But then again, he had to study his partner who wasn't telling secrets (throughout the whole clip).

Adam Thu Jan 22, 2009 02:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spence (Post 571283)
It looks like the shooter's leg hit the defender in the left shoulder. Is the shoulder part of the torso?
The torso is a rule of thumb only, not the rule, and really only helps with a moving defender. In this case, it was the shooter's right leg that essentially stepped on the defender's left shoulder, and the defender was in his spot and not moving.

I could possibly see judging this a no-call, but a block is just the wrong call.

JugglingReferee Thu Jan 22, 2009 02:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 571289)
The torso is a rule of thumb only, not the rule, and really only helps with a moving defender. In this case, it was the shooter's right leg that essentially stepped on the defender's left shoulder, and the defender was in his spot and not moving.

I could possibly see judging this a no-call, but a block is just the wrong call.
Exaclty what I said in my first post in this thread. A block should not even be a possibility when the defender has roots like this guy did.

APG Thu Jan 22, 2009 04:48pm
On first view, I thought it was an easy PC call. After viewing it again to see if I missed anything, I'd still go with PC.

Smitty Thu Jan 22, 2009 05:05pm
Plus they are lining up for the free throw on the offensive end, so it had to be a block call. Looks like PC to me. What a leaper, though - he almost kicks the defender in the face!

KJUmp Thu Jan 22, 2009 05:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by referee99 (Post 571221)
For newer officials...

This is a good play to practice your mechanics on.
A) You have contact by 32 Black (the smaller 1st defender)
B) You have a block by 30 Black
C) You have a player control foul on 23? White

If you had this YouTube moment, how would you want your mechanics to be?

Please, do a better job than this official did of communicating what you have. Think it through all the way, and practice it in a big enough space.

I'm a big proponent of newer officials working their mechanics in the mirror, but also of working through the mechanics of certain plays in the mirror. This is a good one, because there are a few different scenarios to practice. Give it a try.
Ref 99...new ref here...great tip. esp. the point you made about "working through the mechanics of certain plays"..all too often I find myself just practiving one sigle mechanic...not the entire sequence of hand signals you would use in making a call for a foul or a violation.

slow whistle Thu Jan 22, 2009 06:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 571289)
The torso is a rule of thumb only, not the rule, and really only helps with a moving defender. In this case, it was the shooter's right leg that essentially stepped on the defender's left shoulder, and the defender was in his spot and not moving.

I could possibly see judging this a no-call, but a block is just the wrong call.
The ONLY thing that is even close is whether the defender had established his position before the shooter left the ground since there is significant hang time here...watching it on video it is pretty clear to me that this is PC, but real time, floor level angle....who am I kidding they blew this one, been there!:p

deecee Thu Jan 22, 2009 06:19pm
What I got is an official who doesn't know wtf he is doing (and at the college level). Judgement is one thing (and I dont think his is good) but his mechanics are non existent. How is his partner supposed to know what is going on. Also a call like that can have some kind of emotion to sell it as it is close and could potentially (not in this case) go either way.

And the whole time the only way I knew it was a block and a shooting foul was because the players were lining up.

JRutledge Thu Jan 22, 2009 06:30pm
I got nothing. Neither player was displaced by the contact and the defender seemed to flop in my opinion.

I think there was no signal because it looked like the Center was looking to make sure his partner did not have a whistle. I do not see this as a big deal. None of us are perfect.


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