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-   -   Strange happening on Throw-in following basket... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/51109-strange-happening-throw-following-basket.html)

Ch1town Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 571153)
Think of it this way: by the defender making this play, he puts the other team at a disadvantage. On the initial throw-in, they could run the end line. After OOB it's a spot throw-in.
Makes good sense, nice pick-up!
Any similar case plays out there??

mbyron Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef (Post 571155)
True. Team B lost the end line run, but I am asking for the rule/case that allows us to give a DOG warning in this case. Other than committing a violation, A1 does not seem to have broken any rule. He legally left the court. He was attempting to quickly get back onto the court. Then, after the ball left the inbounder's hand, he batted the ball. Unfortunately, he had not regained status inbounds, but I am struggling to find a rule/case that indicates a DOG warning, here.
By rule (don't have my books here), if the defense reaches across the line during a throw-in, we issue a DOG. Well, in the OP, the entire player was across the line during the throw-in.

Ch1town Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 571159)
By rule (don't have my books here), if the defense reaches across the line prior to the release of the ball during a throw-in, we issue a DOG. Well, in the OP, the entire player was across the line during the throw-in.
Fixed it :D
Not to nit-pick, just so the newer officials have all the criteria.

CMHCoachNRef Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 571159)
By rule (don't have my books here), if the defense reaches across the line during a throw-in, we issue a DOG. Well, in the OP, the entire player was across the line during the throw-in.
Only IF the defense reaches across the line BEFORE the ball is released. The player made no play on the ball while returning to the court UNTIL the ball was released. At that point, contact with the ball (by a player on the court defending the inbounder) through the plane is legal, correct?

mbyron Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef (Post 571201)
Only IF the defense reaches across the line BEFORE the ball is released. The player made no play on the ball while returning to the court UNTIL the ball was released. At that point, contact with the ball (by a player on the court defending the inbounder) through the plane is legal, correct?
Correct, as Ch1town points out. Still, in the OP the player is across the line before the ball is released.

Texas Aggie Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:38pm
If the ball has been RELEASED by the person throwing it in, there is no delay and no T. Just make the simple violation call from 9-3-2 and be done with it.

mbyron Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 571223)
If the ball has been RELEASED by the person throwing it in, there is no delay and no T. Just make the simple violation call from 9-3-2 and be done with it.
You're not agreeing with Bob. :eek:

sseltser Thu Jan 22, 2009 01:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 571153)
On the initial throw-in, they could run the end line. After OOB it's a spot throw-in.
This might be a stretch, but couldn't we rule that the defensive team violated during the throw-in? Therefore, team A would maintain the right to run the endline (similar to a kick). The ball was never legally touched.

bob jenkins Thu Jan 22, 2009 01:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef (Post 571128)
Bob, I agree with the you that there is not an intent to allow A1 to take advantage of being out of bounds, but I am curious as to how you can justify a delay of game warning since, strictly speaking, the delay of game warning on throw-ins is limited to breaking the plane while not making contact with the ball (Technical) or inbounder (foul).
I'm not saying that I would call the DOG warning.

But, if we take the (very slow developing play) where A1 crosses the line, then B1 releases the ball, then A1 makes contact with the ball -- it's clearly a DOG warning.

So, while I'd give A1 some slack for being OOB when the throw-in starts, I think A1 might lose that slack if s/he then gains an advantage from it -- namely contacting the ball. It's kind of a "delayed violation / warning."

I think it's really a 2-3 situation -- but I could see the NFHS coming out with an interp that makes it a DOG.

CMHCoachNRef Thu Jan 22, 2009 03:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 571238)
I'm not saying that I would call the DOG warning.

But, if we take the (very slow developing play) where A1 crosses the line, then B1 releases the ball, then A1 makes contact with the ball -- it's clearly a DOG warning.

So, while I'd give A1 some slack for being OOB when the throw-in starts, I think A1 might lose that slack if s/he then gains an advantage from it -- namely contacting the ball. It's kind of a "delayed violation / warning."

I think it's really a 2-3 situation -- but I could see the NFHS coming out with an interp that makes it a DOG.
Makes sense. This situation has generated some interesting discussion in our area. Perhaps a Case Book Sitch for 2009-10.

Ref Ump Welsch Fri Jan 23, 2009 08:54am
I made my response before the OP clarified the ball had been released. The way the OP sounded, I thought the ball hadn't been released. That's why I said T. But now I've seen the clarification, it's just a simple OOB.

Ref Ump Welsch Fri Jan 23, 2009 08:59am
DOG could be justified, but it would be one of those HTBT things. If A1 quickly moved in front of B5 and never went in-bounds, then I would have DOG because A1 is entirely over the line. If A1 did all of this from behind (slapping the ball OOB), then DOG would not be justified because B5 would not have been impeded. Think advantage/disadvantage here.


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