5-second closely guarded rule

Coach Bill

bob jenkins wrote
In NCAAW, there's only a closely guarded count while holding the ball anywhere on the court while a defender is within 3'.

Bob is always right! Our league is playing AAU rules. Girls' AAU goes by NCAA women's rules. Boys AAU goes by NFHS. That's where the confusion was. Everything's squared away now - we're playing NFHS rules, and thanks everyone for the help.

fullor30

BillyMac wrote
The closely guarded rule is in effect in frontcourt only, when a defender is within six feet of the ball handler. Up to three separate five-second counts may occur on the same ball handler, holding, dribbling, and holding. The count continues even if defenders switch. The five-second count ends when a dribbler gets his or her head and shoulders ahead of the defender.

Overkill? I always thought you get to five and blow your whistle 😀

CMHCoachNRef

Ref Ump Welsch wrote
Also, keep in mind the closely guarded rule (FED) does require that the defender must have legal guarding position, meaning he/she must be between the basket and the person with the ball. I can't tell you how many times I've seen an official do the count when the defender didn't have LGP that fit the definition.

Just curious RUW, where do you see the fact that the defender must be between the basket and the player with the ball?

According to NFHS Rules Book Rule 4-23-2:

ART. 2 . . . To obtain an initial legal guarding position:
a. The guard must have both feet touching the playing court.
b. The front of the guard's torso must be facing the opponent.

I don't see any reference to the basket, here. Is it listed somewhere else?

Adam

CMHCoachNRef wrote
Just curious RUW, where do you see the fact that the defender must be between the basket and the player with the ball?

According to NFHS Rules Book Rule 4-23-2:

ART. 2 . . . To obtain an initial legal guarding position:
a. The guard must have both feet touching the playing court.
b. The front of the guard's torso must be facing the opponent.

I don't see any reference to the basket, here. Is it listed somewhere else?

I'm also trying to figure out where the requirement is for LGP. I haven't found that one, either.

mutantducky

Because I haven't been doing girls game-- just to make sure

the 5 rule is only when a player is holding the ball? In the front and backcourt? So no dribbling five seconds like the boys?

Also, can it only be done after a dribble or can the count be started before the dribble and she is closely guarded?

love2refbball

mutantducky wrote
Because I haven't been doing girls game-- just to make sure

the 5 rule is only when a player is holding the ball? In the front and backcourt? So no dribbling five seconds like the boys?

Also, can it only be done after a dribble or can the count be started before the dribble and she is closely guarded?

In NCAAW the five second count is only on a held ball, anywhere on the court, when a defender is within 3 feet, so no count while dribbling. And no not only AFTER a dribble, anytime the ball is being held, before or after the dribble. If my memory serves me right, in CA H.S. girls play with a 30 second shot clock and this rule pertains to them too.

mutantducky

Ok, I was thinking it was only on after the dribble. Luckily, nothing like that has come up yet.

BktBallRef

CMHCoachNRef wrote
Just curious RUW, where do you see the fact that the defender must be between the basket and the player with the ball?

According to NFHS Rules Book Rule 4-23-2:

ART. 2 . . . To obtain an initial legal guarding position:
a. The guard must have both feet touching the playing court.
b. The front of the guard's torso must be facing the opponent.

I don't see any reference to the basket, here. Is it listed somewhere else?

Snaqwells wrote
I'm also trying to figure out where the requirement is for LGP. I haven't found that one, either.

That's because it doesn't exist.

w_sohl

Boys are standard in FED: Defender within 6'-0", dribbling or holding, front court

Girls are similar to NCAA, but instead of 3'-0" it is 6'-0" the rest is the same as NCAA, holding the ball only anywhere on the court. It is a result of us using the shot clock.

Coach Bill

CMHCoachNRef wrote
Just curious RUW, where do you see the fact that the defender must be between the basket and the player with the ball?

According to NFHS Rules Book Rule 4-23-2:

ART. 2 . . . To obtain an initial legal guarding position:
a. The guard must have both feet touching the playing court.
b. The front of the guard's torso must be facing the opponent.

I don't see any reference to the basket, here. Is it listed somewhere else?

I don't think it's in the rule book, but it seems like common sense that the defender must be between the basket and the player (if he's dribbling). Otherwise, the player would be considered to have his head and shoulders in front of the defender and thus the count is off.

Conversely, if he's not dribbling, and is pivoting, the defender will often not be between him and the basket and the count should be on.

BktBallRef

Coach Bill wrote
I don't think it's in the rule book, but it seems like common sense that the defender must be between the basket and the player (if he's dribbling). Otherwise, the player would be considered to have his head and shoulders in front of the defender and thus the count is off.

Not all dribbler's are going to the basket.

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