The Official Forum - Back Court Questions

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ga314ref (Post 569261)

I totally agree with what you just wrote, but I think it would be useful to well consider 4-12-1, which describes player control, which has not been established in any of the situations before the player goes into the BC, and 4-12-2 (describing when a team is in control).

The tapping of the ball and the end of the jump ball don't establish PC or TC. There's was no PC, so there's no TC, so you can't have BC.

ga314ref,
The tapping of the ball and the end of the jump don't establish player control or team control. HOWEVER, once the player (A2) JUMPS from the front court and CATCHES the ball in the air, he has player control. What status does he have when he catches the ball in the air? He has front court status since that was the last place on the court in which he was in contact with floor. Hence, he catches the ball in the air with FRONT COURT status. He then proceeds to land in the BACK COURT. With the exceptions listed in 9.9.3 (defensive player...no prior team control by B, therefore that does not apply here, directly off of a jump ball....does not apply in sitch 2 since the jump ball ends when the ball touches the floor, or directly off of a throw-in as in sitch 4), players are not permitted to be the first player to touch the ball in the back court after team control was established in the front court.

Has it REALLY touched the floor?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jearef (Post 568876)

Sitch 1. No violation, due to specific exception set forth in Rule 9-9-3.

Sitch 2. Jump ball ends when ball strikes the floor, so 9-9-3 exception no longer applies. When A3 jumps from the frontcourt and secures the ball in the air, we now have Team A in control of a ball which is located in the frontcourt. When A3 lands in the backcourt, we have a violation.

Sitch 3. Ball striking the official is the same as touching the court at the official's location. Jump ball ends when the ball strikes the floor. A3 jumps from the frontcourt and secures the ball in the air, giving Team A control of a ball located in its frontcourt. When A3 lands in the backcourt, he violates.

Sitch 4. No violation, due to specific exception set forth in Rule 9-9-3.

Location of the ball and team/player control are pretty basic rules concepts.

Not sure that I concur with you on #3.
4-28-3 lists when the jump ball ends. Striking an official is not there.
It is true that 4-4-4 tells us that a ball contacting an official is treated the same as the ball contacting the floor at that location, but this statement is made within the context of ball location. So it may well be that this is only true for determining the location of the ball and may not be true for determining if a jump ball has ended.

To explain a bit further, the same rule 4-4-4 also says that the ball hitting a player is treated the same as the ball striking the floor at that location, but would you consider the ball to have hit the floor and thus the jump ball to have ended, if A1 taps the ball and then it strikes jumper B1 in the head while he is in contact with the floor? I doubt it because the ball has not touched a non-jumper.

So to test our understanding of play #3, I'll add play #5:
Jumpers A1 and B1 leap into the air and tap the tossed ball simultaneously. After the players have returned to the floor, the ball drops and strikes B1 in the head. The ball bounces high into the air and A2 jumps from his frontcourt, catches the ball in while airborne, and lands in his backcourt. Is this a violation?

You cannot have BC without there having been TC...

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef (Post 569268)

You're right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ga314ref (Post 569406)

I'm not going to beat this to death. There are many more experienced officials that come to this site who may clarify or confirm what's correct, but here's how I've interpreted the situations, the first three being virtually the same:

a) There's a jump ball. Neither team control nor player control exists during a jump ball (4-12-6)

b) The ball is tapped by A. The ball hits the floor, or an official, so the jump ball ends (6-3-8). There's still been no player control, and therefore no team control has been established

c) Even in the case where A3 obtains PC by jumping to the BC after being established in the FC, this is legal because there has been no team control to this point. He is establishing PC and TC by being the player who finally gains possession of the tap. References to 9-9-3 in this case simply muddies the water. Who's the defensive player? Who's on offense? Based on what?

d) I've given my take on situation 4 in a previous post.

You cannot have BC if there was no TC.

PC = TC. Once you have PC, you immediately have TC. The exceptions in the rules are only for players who gain control during the throwin, jump ball, or while on defense.

The NFHS has made it clear that once these events are over, the exception no longer applies.