What was (is) the purpose of the division line?
 

There is a line that goes across the court that we call the "division line." As we have discovered in another thread, this line is not used to determine where players must stand for free throws as a result of technical fouls.

What was the original intent of this line?

I am trying to establish a "base line" (not to be confused with the "end line") for a discussion.

It used to be use for 6-on-6 basketball where certain players could not cross over the division line. I'm too young to have ever seen this played though

-Josh

the division line is the determination of of front court (offense) and back court (defence) as well as refered to as time line in FED and NCAAM NBA where you have a specific amount of time where you may have the ball in the back court during any possession. 10 sec (8 sec NBA)

The division line once posssesion is established beyond this point determines where certain offensive rules come into play such as closely guarded, FED and NCAAM, as well as back court violations in all.

I didn't know you were that young, Josh. Anyone over the age of 22 is old enough to remember seeing this played, as the last 6 on 6 tourney in Iowa was in 1993 (at the old Veterans Memorial Auditorium.) By that time, it was only small schools who were playing by those rules.

Correct. That was the original purpose.

Red Rover, Red Rover
 

Don't hear the term "rover" much anymore, do we? (Iowa folks might be the only ones who remember that).

I grew up watching this sport, but don't remember the term. Care to enlighten me?

I dare Freddy over . . .

This article states that the division line was introduced in 1933 along with a 10 second rule. Comments?

Ciao

6-on-6 -> 2 defenders, 2 forwards, 2 rovers. = 4-on-4 each side. :)

Not how they played when I was in school.

3 on 3 on each side. No rovers. 3 forwards, 3 guards, none of which could cross the division line.

I've been wrong before.

Maybe they did it different in Oklahoma (the last state to do it aside from Iowa) or Michigan (did they ever do 6 on 6?) or before I was around in Iowa.

so the trail official knows when to stop moving forward?

I played it.

Rita

It was played both ways. I played 2 guards, 2 forwards and two rovers. Rovers were allowed to run the whole court whereas forwards and guards were restricted to their half of the court.

But I've heard of other areas where it was 3 and 3.

Rita

My understanding of the division line was to limit the amount of space that the offensive team had in which to play keep-away.

Before returning to the backcourt became a violation and the 10 second limit in the backcourt was established, it was nearly impossible for the defending team to get the ball away from the offensive team if they didn't wish to try for goal.

The game needed a proper balance between the offense and the defense so the amount of space in which the offensive team could operate was reduced. This restored the balance and gave the defending team a legitimate chance to steal the ball.

Where?

I agree with this description. The 6v6 discussion has actually been quite interesting. Years ago, whenever I had a player who didn't like to play defense, I would tell them they went to school in the wrong state -- and would end up explaining the "Iowa Girls Basketball Rules" at a high level.

I would have to look it up, but I believe 6-on-6 basketball actually started before the division line rule in 1933, which means it's original intent was for 6-on-6. Also, I believe Iowa was the first state to use it, then others adopted it but made modifications. Iowa's was 3 offense and 3 defense, because I remember the defense having to pass the ball to their offensive players across the division line. I'll look up the date on 6-on-6's creation to make sure, but then again, I could be wrong.

Thanks, Rita.
Was there also a 3 dribble limit?

Just looked it up (I'm an academian so the temptation hit me as soon as I posted a few minutes ago). Iowa started playing 6-on-6 girls basketball in 1919-20. It was the only game in the state for the girls until 1984-85, when they added a 5-player class. The 1992-93 season was the last for 6-on-6. The following season (93-94), they split into 4 classes for 5-player ball.

That would be pretty good evidence that the original purpose for the division line was for 6-on-6 basketball, because it predates the 1933 rule change creating the division line for the purpose of the 10-second count.

Yes, Ref Ump, you are indeed correct. You will see another thread concerning the "second" intent of the division line.

Semantics, but, I think you guys are comparing Granny Smith's with Washington Reds. If the boys games never played 6v6, the introduction of the division line had no effect on them regardless of it purpose for the girls game. (It was just another volleyball line in the court). Once the boys decided they needed to limit the space that the offense could work in, they decided that a line that was already marked on the court would work fine.

The line has two original purposes, one for boys and another for girls.

I can tell you in Iowa the limit was two dribbles. There were quite a few other differences (the pivot foot could be lifted prior to the release of the first dribble, as long as the downward motion had started prior to lifting the foot).

I believe there used to be a version (somewhere?) that divided the court into three parts. Two guards, two forwards, and two in the center area for each team.

I had thought they started 5 on 5 in Iowa in the late 70's (with the big schools), but I'll defer on that.

Guadalupe, CA.

Rita

I have no idea what that is. And, I may not remember anyway since I'm so OLD!

Rita

In Iowa 6 on 6, a dribbler could only legally bounce the ball two times (thus two dribble limit) before she had to stop and hold the ball.
Outside the lane, it was illegal use of hands to touch the ball while being held by an offensive player.

I do remember it wasn't uncommon for scoring averages to be obsurdly high since all the offense was spread just three ways instead of five.

Yes, both team and individual scoring averages were ridiculous. Just take a gander at the Iowa Girls High School Athletic Union's website. They have some historical information there. Some of the girls teams were scoring in the 60's and 70's before the boys were. Some girls were even averaging 60's before Wilt Chamberlain was. But it was a fun game to watch, because it really made one think about their fundamentals more.

Except dribbling. :)

One of the main selling points in pulling them into the late 20th century was the fact that the rules were costing a lot of girls college basketball scholarships. They were too specialized; forwards couldn't play defense, guards couldn't shoot the ball, and none of them could really handle the ball.

Does anyone know when the prohibition against returning to the backcourt was put in?

It's possible that that rule predates the 10-second limit, and thus could have been the original reason for the introduction of the division line on the boys side.

If that's true, then in order to Ref Ump Welsch's argument to hold up the backcourt restriction would have to have entered the game post 1920. It's possible that he using the wrong rule from the boys' side for comparison.

Yer prolly too young.

Netball?
 

This sounds like Netball, but it has seven players and dribbling is not allowed. It is the most popular womens sport in Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica, United Kingdom and South Africa. The USA has a team, but they suck :) most Americans have never heard of the game, let alone played it.

Fwiw
 

Google sez - "Netball is considered themostpopular women’s team sport in the world. Although invented in the United States in 1891, it is considered a “new” sport in its country of origin yet is a high profile, prime-time TV sport in the United Kingdom, the Caribbean, Asia, Australia and New Zealand. It continues its rapid growth in the United States, Africa and Europe, as the strong lobby of Olympic inclusion builds. "

Yeah it's funny, most people think that netball a a derivative of basketball, but it was actually invented first. It is becomi g increasingly popular as a mixed sport in Australia, it is a great sport for basketballers to play to improve their shooting - there's no backboard!

Mick's version was played in VT till about 1970 or so.

I used to know a girl who played 6-on-6 in Iowa. She was recognized as an All-State player, and never scored a point in her career. She was strictly a defensive player. Kind of weird to hear it that way!