Baseline or Endline (Survey here)
 

Baseline or Endline

So far

21 Baseline
26 Endline

as of 1142 PT on 01-09-09

End lines are on basketball courts. See Rule 1-2.

Baselines are on baseball and softball fields.

Honestly, this had to be surveyed? Why?

OK, I just read Mark's bet. Now I understand. Sorry

Be that as it may, don't be surprised to here the following.

During a timeout:

Coach: "Where is the ball?"

Official: "On the endline."

Coach: "You mean the baseline?"

Official: "Right."

Fixed it for ya. ;)

Nevada:

I agree. Nothing bugs me more when I see or have a partner use the "foul tip" signal for a blocked. I always make it a point to ask him what sport we are officiating, :D.

MTD, Sr.

I usually say the baseline.

Fixed it for you. If they ask me, I just point and say, "Right there." If I'm pointing to the corner, I'll say "endline" or "sideline" as I'm pointing. Never any question.

I say end-line


and another thing that gets me is when my partner says
"no basket the foul is...

ON THE FLOOR" [all the while pointing down]

i just say to myself (isnt every foul we call "on the floor") ;)

Well, technically, a foul (assuming the foul to be a personal foul) actually has to be on a player. The floor is probably not in the book. :D

By Rule, it is the "end line", however, to just about everyone else, it is the "baseline." I have yet to hear a coach yell, "don't let him get endline." Therefore, when talking to fellow officials, it is the "end line." When communicating to a coach, I typically speak his language in the case. If he asks if the ball is on the "baseline", I say, "yes." Of course, within a few seconds either one of my partners or I will be at that spot along the "end line" (mostly referees on the forum), or just inside it if the team gets to run the baseline -- I mean end line. :D

I say baseline during game situations, holdover from my playing days. However, when having rules discussions I say endline.

We should also poll on division line vs. time line :cool:

The time line is where...
 

... I call all my 'over and back' violations!

We'll be consistent there if we ever work together.

Updated results
 

nm

"Goodnight, Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are!" ...
 

I just completed a "find" for the word baseline in both the NFHS Rulebook, and the Casebook. In both books, there is only one single reference to baseline, in describing a rectangular backboard.

I didn't do a "find" for endline. It would probably take too long.

results updated in first post...

MTD, I respect your experience and wisdom, and my "juniority" defers to you....but I sense that the majority of the crowd recognizes the "foul-tip" baseball signal as an indication that I saw the basketball play, and let it go as a clean play. Doesn't baseball and basketball share at least one other sign (at least extremely similar)? The raised fist in baseball means a strike or an out...the arm may not be as straight as our foul call signal, but both are extremely close. Why isn't there some room for the "foul-tip" signal in basketball?

A foul tip signal in basketball can lead to trouble. If one official signals "foul tip" because he sees a clean block, and his partner comes in strong with a foul; you've got the equivalent of a double whistle blarge. Some officials may not care, but I'd much rather avoid explaining to a coach how I had a foul when my partner clearly signaled a clean block; and I'd rather avoid putting my partner into that position as well.

Furthermore, it's like back-pedaling; it tells coaches other officials that you're relatively new.

Honestly, in the leagues I've worked in; back pedaling and foul tip signals scream "amateur official" even louder than showing up in uniform. ;)

On the other hand - perhaps one official saw a clean play and signaled the "foul tip" signal, but his partner saw contact with the body. Both are right.

However, I agree that the signal in NOT necessary - I just won't persecute anyone who does it.

Fixed it for ya ;)

That being said, I do use it to communicate with my partner(s) ie: ball goes OOB on their line & they look to me for help. I'd show that it was deflected & point to the direction, but I'd never use it to acknowledge a blocked shot though.

If I didn't put air in it, then any contact was marginal... play on players & STFU coach/grandma :D

You're right, that's likely what happened. However, it's bound to lead from questions from the coach that can easily be avoided by not using the unapproved signal.

"Persecute" is a little strong, don't you think. I just don't like it, but I'm not going to harp on it unless a guy asks.

...or I'm the one with the foul & he/she is showing a clean block & now we're taking heat. We will discuss this in the locker room!

I had a partner once call so many fouls "on the floor" that the floor fouled out. :D The best part was watching him make a signal to the table of an "F" with his fingers every time he called it.

Agreed.

What about a C giving a tip signal to the trail letting him know the ball was tipped by B and should not be ruled a backcourt violation? I'm sure this is unapproved, but it's something that longtime partners and I use once every 10 games or so.

Obviously I think this is okay, too. If you are planning to go tell your partner he made the wrong call if he calls the bc violation, then isn't it better to prevent him from making the call in the first place and thus keep the game moving?

Yes sir, I think the "foul tip" is a great communication tool amongst officials but should never be used as a mechanic/signal.

Yeah - just couldn't think of another word at the time:)

About the only time I'll use that signal is if partner is looking at me on OOB play if he is unsure if ball was tipped and is looking for help.

Doesn't you not sounding the whistle and calling a foul also let everyone know it was a clean play?

That signal just looks amateurish and looks like the official is trying to justify not making a call which actually, to me, makes the no-call appear even more questionable.

True...good point

I disagree....at least you acknowledge you saw action, but felt it a clean play...otherwise, you stand there chewing your cud, and probably look to most of the fans as if you don't have a clue if there was a foul or not....Only My Opinion, and I know it's not worth much....

Is that in Rule 11 & signal #78 on the signal chart :D

Seriously though, you'll change your tune when you do the foul tip while your partner has a fist up & all hell breaks loose. I promise you that!

Ever had a blarge in your games? If so, I bet you learned to hold up on the prelim huh.

Ever had a held ball while your partner has a foul in front of the fouling teams bench? If so, I bet you learned to go with the held ball huh.

Well, you are right....obviously, but I am hoping my partner isn't calling in my area....then we don't have that problem...but I know, it's not a perfect world, so I better shag the "unauthorized" signal...

I'm not right, JMO. It's about what is right. Hoping partners don't call in your area won't make it so. What about the gray areas of the court? It's bound to be a double whistle sooner or later.

I use this signal in one situation....if I am C in FC and have a play in front of me and the ball goes shooting into the BC and T has no idea what happened b/c he is hopefully watching his primary, I will give the ugly tipped ball signal so he doesn't call a BC violation...to me this beats him stopping play and me having to run over to inform him that the ball was tipped...

Rich obviously agrees with you. :D

Ha looked for that example too to see if it was posted already...apparently didn't look hard enough!:D