Poi?
 

no monsieur. not the french!

Team A throws long pass towards their basket.
As the ball approaches them, A2 and B2 fight vigorously for position to catch the pass. Double foul called on A2 and B2! Ball was in close proximity to players when fouls occurred.

Where is ball inbounded if: a) it was inbounds pass was on throw-in from the endline, or b) thrown from opponents FT line. or c) thrown from backcourt near table?

In each of your cases, the ball is put back in play at the spot closest to where the ball was last in contact with the floor or a player.

1) Original throw-in spot
2) Endline
3) Backcourt, near the table.

a) Hard to read, do you mean it was a throw-in baseball pass?

b & c) The throw-in should be from where the pass originated if the double foul was prior to the pass being completed.

and on a try that misses?
 

its the same? from whence ball was thrown, or where it ended up?

right. baseball pass from oob.
 

.................

Sigh --

Where is the POI? It's the "Ball Location."

How is "Ball Location" defined -- see 4-4.

You received a clear, correct answer.

Poi is Hawaiian, not French. ;)

Mahalo.

You can only have poi in the game if you accompany it with a crab dribble. :rolleyes:

Remember in NFHS there is no team control during a throw in so in a) you also have a AP throw in 6-4-3-g

I'm assuming 6-4-3g has the throwin over (ball legally touched) but team control not yet established. Right?

In the original situation, the throw-in pass was "approaching" the 2 players, so it had not been touched inbounds. That means that the throw-in hadn't ended; and that means that the POI is a new throw-in to the team that just threw the ball in.

If the ball had been touched before the double foul, then we would have no team control and NOT during the throw-in, so we would go to the arrow.

I don't see where touching is relevant here, when the ball is at disposal, there is no team control during the throw in. If a double foul occurs before team control is established the you need to go to the arrow. Touching is only relevant to determine where the ball would be put in at.

Not entirely the same, but bear with me. During a shot attempt a double foul occurs do you not go to the arrow for the subsequent throw-in? Why? Because team control is not established. During a throw in would be the same. At disposal, no one has team control, so subsequent throw in is via the AP.

Read 4-36-2a defintion of Point of Interruption

In case your rule book isn't handy, eyezen, the definition of POI says if the interrupting event occurs during a throwin, the POI is the throwin.

I did, it says "A throw in to the team that was in control at a spot nearest to where the ball was located when the interuption occured".

Which team is that during a throw in?

I agree if the original throw in was an AP throw in. The original AP throw in had not completed.

4-36-2b pardon me

eyezen, I fought this same battle on the board a little while back & got KO'd early. After re-reading POI & maybe viewing a couple of case plays you'll see they are right.

Play shall be resumedby one of the following methods:
b) a free throw or throw in when the interruption occured during this activity (so in this case we will have a throw in) or if a team is entitled to such. (this could be it, but who is entitled?)

(PS I'm willing to be wrong on this)

It's not a battle. Its a civil discussion. And I could be wrong. Which case plays? I'll be more than happy to read them.

The red is what's relevant here. If the interruption was during the throwin, you get to do another throwin. It would be the same team that was in the midst of the throwin.

The whole idea of POI is "what if it hadn't happened."

Scenario:
A1 holding the ball for a throwin.
A2 and B2 get whistled for a double foul.

If it hadn't happened, A would have completed their throwin. Let them have the ball again for the throwin.

Or double Ts during any dead ball preceding a throwin or free throw.

Didn't mean it like that... my fault. Don't have my book but I own that rule thanks to the forum :D

Say A1 shoots & before it's successful we have a double foul, no t/c but we wont go to the arrow, Team A scored so Team B is entitled to such.

I wrote this months ago, but I can't find the original thread now. Maybe it will be helpful. Read 4-36 all the way through and then read the following for the English translation:


If the double foul happens:
a) during a free throw or throwin, you resume with the free throw or throwin;
b) after a foul or violation, then you resume by administering the penalty for the foul or violation;
c) while the ball's in play and there's team control, then you simply give a throwin to the team in control;
d) when there is no team control, and there's no way to know who would have gotten the ball, then,
and only then, you go to the possession arrow.

It's actually really simple. Just ask yourself, "What would've happened if the whistle had not blown?" If you answer that you don't know, then go to the possession arrow. Otherwise, just do what you were going to do next anyway.

All this tells me is how, not by whom.

The how would be obvious and doesn't need a rule for it. You can only put a ball in play with a jump ball (obviously not applicable), a free throw (not applicable), or a throw in.

It does tell you by whom.

I can see that angle, but also we could say we know that the ball is still live during the shot and no TC at this point. At the moment the ball is dead, made basket by A allowed B to become entitled Satifying part b. of 4-36-2

However one could also say that once the new throw in begins ball is live and the entitlement is over.

Guys, I'm arguing just as much with myself on this one. :D

You're right, the made basket is the entitlement.

"During a throwin"....

Never mind.

Never mind what?

I'm trying to learn here.

"Play shall be resumed by one of the following methods. b) A free throw or throw in when the interruption occurred during this activity or if a team is entitled to such."

The first part of B tells me how (In OP the throw in was interupted during a throw in, so we restart with a throw in, nothing more nothing less)

The second part tells who if there is entitlement. I am making the case that A's entitlement is over once the ball becomes live.

I quit. :) I'll let you argue with yourself. I have a game to go to.

A's entitlement doesn't end until the throw-in ends (legally or by A's violation). They're entitled to a throw-in, not merely to a live ball.

2006-07 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations
SITUATION 2: Post players A5 and B5 are called for a double personal foul while the ball is in the air on a pass from A1 in A's backcourt to A2 in A's frontcourt. RULING: Team A had control of the ball when the double foul occurred, and thus play will be resumed at the point of interruption. Team A will have a designated spot throw-in in A's backcourt nearest to where A1 was last in contact with the ball. (4-4-3; 4-36; 6-4-3g; 7-5-9)

nfhs
 

no monsieur. not the french!

Team A throws long pass towards their basket.
As the ball approaches them, A2 and B2 fight vigorously for position to catch the pass. Double foul called on A2 and B2! Ball was in close proximity to players when fouls occurred.

Where is ball inbounded if: a) it was inbounds pass was on throw-in from the endline, or b) thrown from opponents FT line. or c) thrown from backcourt near table?

This is from the NFHS:

a) The ball shall be given to Team for a throw in from spot nearest the last posession 4-36-2b – POI – I
b) Same as above if the throw is from the actual FT line. This is due to where you take the ball out on all throw ins. If it were outside the lane and on the FT line extended it would be on the side line nearest the spot.
c) The ball will be a throw in from the backcourt side line on table side nearest the spot the pass was throw from.

A couple of side notes on this:

If this were a throw in: a)thrower still has ball b) ball in flight c) has been touched by either team but not in control

a) and b) would go to original throw in spot since throw in has not ended. In c) you would go to the original throw in spot but use AP.

You have (a) and (b) correct. (c), however, would be at the spot nearest where it was touched; but you would go AP since the throwin had ended but control hadn't been established.