Player Out of Bounds/1st to touch inbounds
 

Saw this in a middle school game last week and home coach went crazy!!!

A1 is underneath and goes up for a shot. The ball misses everything and falls to the floor untouched. A1's momentum carried him to have one foot over the out of bounds line underneath, then he came back in and grabbed the ball. The official did not call a violation, even though the coach was screaming that a player cannot come back in and touch the ball.

I believe the no call was the correct call based rule 7-1-1, Situation B. It indicates that a player who does not leave the court voluntarily and did not have control when he did, therefore he is safe to come back in and secure control.

LIke to know what others think...

You are correct. There are no restrictions on being the first to touch the ball as long as the player has established position in bounds. It doesn't even really matter if the player left "voluntarily" or not as long as they didn't leave for an "unauthorized" reason. Even if they do leave for an unauthorized reason, the violation is not for being the first to touch, it is for leaving the court.

There is no "first to touch" rule in high school basketball.

considered one of the most misunderstood rules

"• A player who is not a dribbler in control can keep (i.e., tap) a ball inbounds, go out of bounds, and return inbounds and play the ball!"

Tried to attach the entire file, which is only 48 kb but won't attach. :(

From BillyMac's Myths......
 

12) If a player's momentum carries him or her off the court, he or she can be the first player to touch the ball after returning inbounds. That player must not have left the court voluntarily and must immediately return inbounds. That player must have something in and nothing out. It is not necessary to have both feet back inbounds. It is a violation for a player to intentionally leave the court for an unauthorized reason.

I want to know Billy's basis for what's in red.

9-3-3 and related case plays.

The coach is a fool. The NCAA Case Book actually mentions this play directly as an example of legal action.

Out-of-Bounds Player, Ball
A.R. 157. A1 blocks a pass near the end line. The ball falls to the floor
inbounds but A1, who is off balance, falls outside the end line.
A1 returns to the playing court, secures control of the ball, and
dribbles.
RULING: Legal. A1 has not left the playing court voluntarily and
was not in control of the ball when leaving the playing court. This
situation is similar to one in which A1 makes a try from under the
basket and momentum carries A1 off the playing court. The try is unsuccessful,
and A1 comes onto the playing court and regains control
of the ball.
(Rule 7-1.1, 4-46.1.a and 9-4)

With all due respect, I'm not sure something from an NCAA Case Book is relevant in a middle school game. They almost always play NF rules. In fact, I'd be surprised if there was a middle school league that played anything else (in the US, that is).

URBAN LEGEND folklore. Correct call!

Not Both Feet?
 

Had a play in a BV game last week where B1 in an attempt to defend A1 on a fast break, while hustling to get back on D his momentum carried him off the court under A's basket. The shot was missed, the rebound was "popped" straight up by players from both teams. In returning towards the court, B1 took two steps OOB, his third step was "in-bounds" and was a "leap" towards the rebound, which he eventually recovered with one foot very near the left side block and the other in between the block and the second hash mark. I called B1 OOB because he did not have both feet back "in bounds" before he touched the ball. B's coach didn't like the call, but accepted the "he hadn't returned to the court" response.
One thing that made this play so difficult, was the fact B1 recovered the ball so far onto the court.
Have not found a clear description of "return to court" in the books.
I procured a DVD of the game, have watched it many times, and still think I was right.

When his third step ocurred, unless he had the other foot touching out of bounds he was in bounds. I think he should have been allowed to keep the rebound

Next time this occurs, you will know you're right :D

As I read this, you were wrong. There is no rule that requires both feet to be in bounds. Something in and nothing out is all that is required.

Now, this coach will complain when the next official gets the call right.

My bad, should've said "still BELIEVE I was right".

Lord knows I've made some calls in my time that were based on a misunderstanding of the rules. Live, call, and learn.

I don't know if coach is a fool........ ignorant to the rules perhaps, or maybe you're refering to the reaction he had.

I'm trying to be kinder and gentler in 2009;)

In New York State, Boys HS use NFHS(with a few changes) and Girls HS use NCAAW. For MS Games, known here as 'Modified' a modified ruleset is used for each (involving full court press, 3 point shots and man-to-man defense). So here in NY, girls MS will use NCAAW with a few modifications.

Fair point and sorry if it came across that way.
I wasn't trying to give it as the definitive source for that particular game or level of play. I was merely attempting to make the point that EVEN at the NCAA level this play is legal, and as that and the NBA are what most of these Pat Riley impersonators watch on TV that is likely where they get most of their basketball "knowledge."
So the point was that even if NCAA games on TV are his source of learning, he still didn't grasp the correct understanding.

Sure it is. With the rules being 99.9% the same, commentary from/about NCAA rules/interpretations is certainly worth considering as a tool to understand the rules when the NFHS is either silent on the topic or doesn't contain anything contradictory.

Had a similar play the other afternoon in HS V girls game EXCEPT... White 13 inbounds ball to #12. 12 is trapped and turns to pass back to 13 who has been standing out of bounds the entire time. 13 jumps in, catches ball, and lands. Whatcha got?

I got out of bounds.

You are where you are (out of bounds) until you get where you're going (inbounds).

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

- Bertrand Russell

We're All Mythbusters Here On The Forum ...
 

Not mine. I'm just the keeper of the Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules list.

Which is why I went "Tweet! Black ball!"

Technical foul on White #13 for delaying to return inbounds. :D

That guy was awesome!

Actually I saw a T for dealying to return for something far more stupid that that one time. Could not believe my eyes!

Thanks for straightening me out on my "return to court/both feet" issue.
I believe I was (mis)applying a combination of Backcourt and OOB principles.

You can't just leave us hanging like that, Rev.

quick clarification on this-1. A1 in control holding the ball, fumbles it and saves it out of bounds. Can A1 go back in grab ball? If dribble is that a violation?
2.A1 is dribbling and losses the ball, his foot and then saves it. Once back in bounds can he pick it up. I assume can't dribble.
3. A1 dribbles of A2 foot- does that change anything?
4. A1 is dribbling and goes out of bounds for a reason without touching the ball, say other players had tripped and A1 goes out of avoid a collision. Can A1 once inbounds continue the dribble? If he grabs it and then dribbles is that a violation?
thanks

I'm glad I got that stupid no two feet thing. I've had that during pickup games and even before I was a ref I was "THIS isn't football"

1. Yes. No. The "grab" ends the first dribbel, so the second dribble is illegal.
2. Same answer
3. No
4.A violation on A as soon as he touches OOB.

NYS girls modified (our name for middle school) plays using NCAAW rules, with some modifications.