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jevaque Tue Dec 23, 2008 03:24pm

2 person
 
should be easy to answer but i have not done 2 person in 5 yrs, so im curious. In two person do you long switch?? calling foul in backcourt going the other way..

Adam Tue Dec 23, 2008 03:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jevaque (Post 561171)
should be easy to answer but i have not done 2 person in 5 yrs, so im curious. In two person do you long switch?? calling foul in backcourt going the other way..

Pregame it, but no, I don't.

cubsfanllw Tue Dec 23, 2008 03:38pm

we don't where i am

iref4him Tue Dec 23, 2008 03:50pm

BY the mechanics book, in 2-man you switch every time. It depends on your association. We do not long switch on any back court fouls.

jevaque Tue Dec 23, 2008 03:55pm

thats what i thought but my partner last night night said he always does. SO by the book in 2 person ur suppose to long switch??????

I know they changed it for 3 person a few yrs back not to long switch, but i thought they did for 2 person also

Ch1town Tue Dec 23, 2008 03:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by iref4him (Post 561182)
BY the mechanics book, in 2-man you switch every time. It depends on your association. We do not long switch on any back court fouls.

Haven't had to work much 2 person this season (God is good) but we switch on all fouls in 2 person.

BLS Tue Dec 23, 2008 03:59pm

By the book... you switch on every foul - including long switches. I'm still a rookie but any time I'm with a partner that works primarily 3-man, they don't want to long switch. Our association decided no long switches in 2-man.

Adam Tue Dec 23, 2008 04:03pm

I could have sworn they changed the book on this, but I can't find it. I do know long switches are frowned upon here.

Rich Tue Dec 23, 2008 05:09pm

We do it, with some rare spontaneous exceptions.

Back In The Saddle Tue Dec 23, 2008 06:18pm

I believe that a few years ago the NFHS flip-flopped on this, first removing it from 2 person, then restoring it a couple of years later. I always pre-game that we will not do the long switch. And it's not just to eliminate 50 unnecessary extra steps. It's to prevent both officials from remaining in the backcourt while all 10 players are headed to the front court. IMHO that's just not smart.

refnrev Tue Dec 23, 2008 06:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 561174)
Pregame it, but no, I don't.

Not if I can help it. I sure love 3 -whistle crews!

jdw3018 Tue Dec 23, 2008 06:30pm

I've never understood why the Fed has kept long switching in the 2-man mechanics. There's an exception in 3-man, may as well be in 2-man, too.

No long switches accomplishes two things - easier dead-ball officiating (one official gets to keep his eyes on the entire court without worrying about heading to the other end) and provides a more efficient process.

Currently the off-call official can choose to be an excellent dead-ball official by freezing until after the reporting and then heading to the other end, but that obviously comes at the expense of efficiency. Heading immediately to the other end comes at the expense of dead-ball officiating.

Enough rambling. You get my point. If you care at all. I certainly don't after wasting my time writing this. Glad I only work 3-man... :D

BillyMac Tue Dec 23, 2008 07:27pm

Only In The Land Of Steady Habits ...
 
CONNECTICUT (IAABO) MECHANICS:
Point to floor for two-point field goal try when shooter has foot touching three point line.
No long switches when foul is called in the backcourt and there is no change of possession or direction.
Team members are not allowed to congregate at midcourt during introductions. Officials will direct players to free throw line area in front of respective benches.
Coaching Box must be marked. If home coach and/or home management refuse to designate coaching box with tape, the home team will not use a coaching box for that game. However, the visiting team will be allowed a coaching box. Notify Board Secretary, or Commissioner the next day.

Nevadaref Wed Dec 24, 2008 09:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jevaque (Post 561191)
thats what i thought but my partner last night night said he always does. SO by the book in 2 person ur suppose to long switch??????

I know they changed it for 3 person a few yrs back not to long switch, but i thought they did for 2 person also

Yes, according to the NFHS officials manual the officials switch on each and every foul in 2-man. The no-long-switch exception is only for 3-man.

When I work 2-man, I switch every time.

I say do it right. If one is too lazy to hustle and give that effort, then one shouldn't be out there.

Rich Wed Dec 24, 2008 09:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdw3018 (Post 561232)
Currently the off-call official can choose to be an excellent dead-ball official by freezing until after the reporting and then heading to the other end, but that obviously comes at the expense of efficiency. Heading immediately to the other end comes at the expense of dead-ball officiating.

You can keep your head on a swivel while moving and do both at the same time.

Rich Wed Dec 24, 2008 09:20am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 561339)

When I work 2-man, I switch every time.

We do this, most of the time. During "garbage time" when we have runs of free throws my partner will put his hand up to say "stay where you are" and I really don't have the inclination to fight him on it there.

This is something the NFHS could and should switch. There's really no point in the long switch considering the situations in 3 person where NONE of the officials move.

I've worked hard to incorporate more NFHS mechanics that have eluded me the past few years, including stopping the clock on out of bounds calls and not blowing a whistle on the baseline throw-in.

I'll let you know what happens if I ever have a pregame dunk. :D

Nevadaref Wed Dec 24, 2008 09:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichMSN (Post 561342)
We do this, most of the time. During "garbage time" when we have runs of free throws my partner will put his hand up to say "stay where you are" and I really don't have the inclination to fight him on it there.

This is something the NFHS could and should switch. There's really no point in the long switch considering the situations in 3 person where NONE of the officials move.

I've worked hard to incorporate more NFHS mechanics that have eluded me the past few years, including stopping the clock on out of bounds calls and not blowing a whistle on the baseline throw-in.

I'll let you know what happens if I ever have a pregame dunk. :D

Now that's funny! :)

BTW I don't like the NFHS 3-man switching mechanics mainly because there are too many situations in which none of the officials swap spots. I much prefer the NBA mechanic in which the calling official comes to the table and the other two officials switch. This changes it up with greater frequency and this is desirable.

Scrapper1 Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 561359)
I much prefer the NBA mechanic in which the calling official comes to the table and the other two officials switch. This changes it up with greater frequency and this is desirable.

I like the NBA mechanic as well, but you don't have it quite right. In the NBA, in the frontcourt, the calling official becomes the Trail (not necessarily tableside) and the other two switch.

Nevadaref Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:19am

Ok, I'll take your word for it. ;)

Back In The Saddle Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:53pm

Is there really an issue with NFHS/NCAA style switching in 3 person? Is it really necessary to switch like the NBA does to ... actually, what is the goal of the NBA switch?

Scrapper1 Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 561542)
Is there really an issue with NFHS/NCAA style switching in 3 person? Is it really necessary to switch like the NBA does to ... actually, what is the goal of the NBA switch?

It simply gets all 3 officials to a different spot after each foul, so you don't get the same two guys making the call on each end of the court and just switching with each other. This is less of a possibility, I think, when the calling official goes opposite (NCAA M) than when the calling official simply goes tableside. If you just go tableside, then if we're shooting the bonus on both ends, the Lead and Trail could simply switch every possession while the C sits opposite the table for a prolonged period. This won't happen in the NBA mechanic.

Back In The Saddle Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:26pm

Though theoretically it could be the same ONE guy, since s/he becomes T after every foul call, he'll become L once the ball goes the other way. Actually, in a really sadistic way, that would help ensure consistent calls at each end. ;)

zeedonk Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:28am

I have heard both explanations from differing sources in my association. It seems to vary between "no long switches- period" to "no long switches unless we're shooting". I've been pregaming this. Results have varied.

I dunno... Despite the manual, it seems strange for me to be at midcourt when my partner calls a foul in backcourt on a press, then reports and heads the rest of the way to administer while I stand there, watch players and then take 2-3 steps to my position during the FTs. Makes me feel like I'm not doing anything.

Z

stosh Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:39pm

Officials Manual 2.4.2.E.1.
"Officials should switch position on all fouls. No exceptions."

We normally don't make long switches, despite the Manual instruction.

BillyMac Fri Dec 26, 2008 01:35pm

No Long Switches ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zeedonk (Post 561749)
It seems strange for me to be at midcourt when my partner calls a foul in backcourt on a press, then reports and heads the rest of the way to administer while I stand there, watch players and then take 2-3 steps to my position during the FTs. Makes me feel like I'm not doing anything.

Me too, and we've been doing something similar, here in Connecticut, for three seasons. My first year was the worst. In this situation, as the lead, I was used to hustling to make the switch, and had to force myself to stop in my tracks. Also, in this situation, I'm still having a problem, as the trail, getting to the reporting area, and find myself reporting from the free throw line, using my presence there to let my partner know that we're not going to switch.


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