Incident With Fan
 

This might seem like it has an obvious answer, but if it does the answer has so far eluded me. Sorry for the length...

Working the 5th game of a 5 game set today at a 6 court facility. "Home" team is more physical than the other, puts "Visiting" team in bonus rather quickly after the second half begins. Home player picks up his fourth foul and during time out the player's mom comes on the court and tries to ask us what exactly her son is doing to be called for fouls. I'm ready to whack her with a T right there, but my partner waves me up and simply says to her, "He pushes, now get back in the stands."

Mom returns to the stands and then proceeds, with her husband, to rain abuse down on my partner and I the rest of the game. They are not being profane or getting personal in any way and my partner advises me to ignore them, which I do. Now here's where it gets interesting...

Being a multi-court facility, there are no locker rooms for us to escape to or leave our gear in. We have no choice but to run to the table, sign the score sheet, grab our gear and get the heck out of dodge. Unfortunately, we are not quite fast enough and the Dad catches us. He starts getting louder and louder as we walk away from him. We realize we're not going to make it to the door without this getting worse, so we make a beeline towards the nearest cluster of officials we see. Before we make it there, the Dad grabs my partner by the arm and attempts to pull him around and make my partner face him. Thankfully one of the officials we were heading to saw what was happening and got in between them. To make a long story short, our Supervisor wants my partner to press charges, etc.

My question is what do you do in a situation like that? Is there anything you can do?

Granted, I should have not have let the parents go on as they did during the game and in that sense I probably should not have acceded to my partner as much as I did, but you live and learn.

When you have abusive parents and you know which child is theirs, call a fifth foul on the kid and get him out of the game as quickly as possible. ;)

We actually did foul him out too. That probably didn't help much...

When the mom came out onto the floor to talk to you, you should have found some sort of site administrator to address the issue. Fans have no business pulling that kind of stuff. Then when the fans continued to berate you, again, site administration should have become involved.

In a game like this, I have literally used a fire exit to get out away from nasty fans. Whatever it takes.

And then, don't work in that league or whatever again. If the powers that be can't control their fans any better than that, you don't want to even go there.

"Sorry ma'am, which player is your son?"
"Number 14."
"Tweet. Technical foul - White 14."
:D

I agree with Juulie outside of the fact they should never have allowed a parent to get on the floor without running out there to put her back where she belonged. Which bags the question, 6 court facility, very doubtful there was game administration on each court.

Do we know who our game administrators are and where they can be found?

I had a situation umpiring where after the game, the losing coach came after my partner in the parking lot and my partner was "egging" the coach on, you could see a lot brewing during the game as well. I was able to get between them and had the coach (who was also a parent) calm down enough to look around at all of his players staring wide-eyed. He apologized to me and went to his car.

Not on a consistent basis, no. With 6 courts they run all over the place so it takes forever to find one.

Second she hit the floor, mommy better hope there is a radio broadcast of the game, because she is going to be spending the rest of it in her car.

I've done this before, ejected a father while the mother had to sit there embarassed. I'm sure dad got an ear full when they got home.

My earlier post was obviously in jest. However, this comment is serious.

ANYONE WHO STEPS ONTO THE PLAYING COURT WITHOUT PROPER AUTHORIZATION IS AUTOMATICALLY EJECTED FROM THE PREMISES.

And, if the parent doesn't want to leave AND you can't find game administration - tell the coach they've got one minute to get the fan outa there or declare the game a forfeit. The rest of the players and parents won't stand for it..... JMO

Bingo, issue solved. And if game management is no where to be found. "Coach, you have a minute to escort this fan, thank you'

In Ontario we have a Fair Play Policy. She came onto the court? Buh-bye.

"Sir, do I need to phone the police?"

Yes, I would seriously consider pressing charges.

The only thing I think you can do is to try to avoid being confronted. It sounds as though you did that in the crowded venue. If talk is civil, then I might end up talking to the guy, but otherwise, I'm ignoring him and going right past him too.

Here's where my story would end. Game would not proceed until I talk to site admin about the fan. What admin does after that is up to them.

Ask the table to call Game Management to your court (if they have phones / walkie-talkies) or to get GM's attention when they next come by. Restart the game.

When GM comes by stop the game or at a natural stoppage, talk to them and have the offender removed.

if you do not have the parent ejected from the game and do not press charges, what makes you think these parents (or any others parents/fans watching this unfold) will stop engaging in this behavior in the future?

What would you do in a high school game?
 

What would you do in a game governed by High School Rules?

Why would you do any less here?

You are on the court, you are out of the facility! period end of conversation, You can go peacefully or with assistance of Law.
And the kids will have to pay for your actions here with a Whack also.

In Oregon, this is a class A misdemeanor and will be prosecuted by the district attorneys office and can result in a fine and/or jail time. Also, in our state, if you direct a fan (or anyone else) to leave the premises and they refuse, they are considered trespassing and you can call the police to have them arrested. These are relatively new laws in our state and I carry copies of them in my gym bag.

After taking a night and sleeping on this, I realized all this could have been avoided had I not deferred to my partner so much. I should have gone with my first instinct and either whacked her with a T or had her removed. A day removed from this, I'm amazed I didn't do that in the first place.

Lesson learned. I wouldn't give her a T, though. Just have her removed.

A large youth league (4th-8th grade travel teams) this year put in place a very strict policy regarding sportsmanship. It makes the head coach responsible for the conduct of spectators. Officials can have the coach remove the parents. If they don't, game is over. Additionally, there are provisions for further sanctions upon review by league officials and the referee coordinator.

It is too bad that this is necessary, but the clear language gives officials an unambiguous road map to deal with parents and other spectators in gyms where "game management" may be the biggest offender.

Fan on the court? Fan leaves. Game doesn't start until fan leaves. If fan doesn't leave and team identity is clear: forfeit.

I had a Dad in the top row during a CYO tournament championship get very abusive at my partner. I just walked to the bottom of the stands and pointed to the door. He refused. I walked to the table and in a loud voice said, "Put :30 seconds on the clock and if he is still here when the horn sounds the game is over!" and then walked away. The other parents almost bodily threw him out since their team was winning at the time. :D

We've had this rule in our local kids rec league pretty much ever since it started over 30 years ago. We have the coach tell the parent that not only is the game over if they don't leave, but each player's parent will be told that it is their fault the kids can't play any more basketball today. That's a pretty effective last resort. In my 20+ years with this league, I've never had a parent refuse to leave when asked. All things considered, we don't have too much of a parent problem overall.

I have found that the parents are getting more and more out of hand each year. Maybe its because my eyesight is getting worse as I get older.:D But seriously, sportsmanship is becoming a lost aspect of sports. From the players to the coaches to the fans. Its all a trickle down from the NBA posturing too.

Whatever the root cause, game officials have too often abdicated responsibility from holding people accountable for their actions. How can we expect people to exhibit sportsmanship when we don't call them on their unaccaptable behavior?

It sounds like the Original Poster wishes he could have handled his situation differently....I would encourage everyone to consider what they would do, so that when it happens you won't have second thoughts later.

Ultimately, if we don't enforce standards of sportsmanship (when neccessary), who will?

I agree with the above.

And dont feel guilty should you eject a parent or forfeit the game. Everything that transpires is THEIR choice. To leave or stay, its up to them and so are the consequences.

DO NOT feel guilty about throwing an abusive fan out. If you do not fix the situation, the rest of your games will go to pot. I stop the game, get the sheriff or game administrator to escort them out. They will not behave that way again. They are very embarrassed to be kicked out.

I have found that I do not call as well if I have a fan or a bad coach jawing me the whole game. I like the above comment that said to go ahead and chunk the kid on his fifth foul. That way his parents have no reason to wait on you. He can ride with his parents who just got escorted out. :)

Have you guys noticed that no matter how good an official is, if the game sucks itself, it is harder to call?

Best advice I've ever gotten from a D1 ref at a camp "Identify the trouble maker and get him on the bench, he'll ruin your game" Has served me well.

I do wish I had handled it much differently. At the very least I wanted a T, but my partner did not want any trouble at all. In that respect, I was not doing my job by letting my partner decide for me.

YOU did not foful anyone out. The player comitted five fouls. Never forget that!!!!!

Had a BV game last week where the visiting teams best player fouled out (I called the 5th foul) with about 5 minutes left in the 4th. Coach asked me how I could have fouled out his best player. I responded with "Coach, we have called 7 fouls on your team this whole game -- 5 are his. I think he tried his best to get out of this one." Once he realized that was the case he sat down and I didnt hear from him the rest of the game. Especially since they were down by 15 when star player fouls out and end up pulling to within 2 with under 30 seconds to go. Lost the game of free throws in the end of course.

Just Players, Coaches, Table Crew, And Officials ...
 

I would clear the gym before I would forfeit the game.

...with no wiggle room?

Had a Boys Varsity jamboree the other night. Before the game, and during warm-ups...my partner waved a player over. He informed the player that his "bracelet" (It was kind of a neat looking brown, weaved cloth or leather looking thing...about 2 inches wide...that had a MEDICAL ALERT bracelet attacted on top of it.)

This probably looked "cool" for walking around the mall...but, not for a basketball game.

Anyway, the mother came down on the court...as my partner was talking to the player...asking if there was a problem.

My partner explained to her he would have to get the bracelet taped...or he couldn't play. Immediately, the AD of the home school was there to escort the mother off the court. ( Great job by the AD IMO.)

The mother was adamant that he needed that bracelet because of his medical condition.

My partner told her he could wear the funky looking bracelet...but, it would have to be taped.

Also...what if the tape is white (as usual athletic tape is) and the other players are wearing black wristbands?

Comments?

Deck the guy :D

Two different rules. A taped medical alert bracelet is not a wristband. No color restrictions on the tape.

Somehow I don't think that would have helped, not to mention the size difference.

Dad was about 6' 4" and I'm 5' 10". Not a good size differential.

Sorry, I don't care why a parent feels the need to come on the floor to discuss anything with an official. If they do that, they are gonzo. If a player has a medical alert bracelet, it has to be taped. Its a rule. Period. No more reason for Mommy to come on the floor than when I call a foul on her little boy. (sarcasm)

Kinda harsh there...It's before the game and the child has a medical condition requiring a bracelet and the parent sees some discussion about the bracelet--I don't blame them for being alarmed. I would politely asked them to leave the court and address their concerns through the coach.

Would you kick out a parent who runs on the court when there child has suffered a major injury?

Nope. But its the exception to the rule. And the only one!! But that kid better never be able to come back into the game. Otherwise its just one more overrection by a parent.

Harsh? Nope. But parents need to know their limits. And coming on the floor is one of them.

Wow. Completely absurd imo. I would like to think that we can excercise better people skills than to throw a parent for this. Like a poster said... mom noticed some concern over her kid's medical bracelet and wanted to know what was going on.... easily addressed and we don't have to look like complete a-holes. How much smoother do you think the game will go if we present ourselves as humans and not power mongers on an ego trip?

So if the kid returns in the second half after a nasty lookin' first half injury, do you go looking for the parent to dump them?:rolleyes:

Yeah...I'm going right up into the stands after 'em:rolleyes: Sheesh.

Look, I only do high school. I'm not talking about some lower level game with Mommy worried about jr. In the context of my post we're talking about a parent coming on the floor at an official (maybe not threateningly) which sets a real dangerous precedence. Does this same parent complain about jr's playing time to the coach too? Sorry. I don't by that. It has nothing to do with egotrip. It has to do with the proper management of the game, including what is allowed by the crowd. An example of preventative management. We've had three serious assaults on basketball officials in the last couple of years. Its not a joke that parents need to know their place.

Mom's concern over what her kid is wearing is quite frankly none of her business on the floor. The referee involved is following the rules. It has nothing to do with the health of the kid. It has to do with the rules. Are we going to start letting parents come down and ask us during a dead ball why that last call was a charge intead of a block too? This is a hot button for me. Parents need to let the coach coach, the official officiate and the kids play. Personally, I think the games would be better if only students and teachers were allowed in the stands. Most of the unsportsmanlike behavior we see at games comes from adults. Thats truly sad.

I only do varsity HS and small college as well and your analogies are apples and oranges. Handle it the way you want but I find you way off base as you seem to be the type who only see black and white and not the shades of gray that actually present a real bball game.

If "mommy" comes out of the stands during a game to question a call... gone. If she comes down pre game to see what the situation about her kid's medical bracelet is about and does so in a civilized manner I address it and have her take her place back in the stands... apples and oranges dude. In my opinion it is applying common sense to individual situations in a game environment and not covering everything with a blanket...

~sigh~... Again do it however you see fit but I personally find your approach to be heavy handed. I will judge each sitch on its own merits and act accordingly.

Wow I thought that many of the rules we enforce are directly about the health of the players - medical alert bracelets, blood, etc. Obviously you know better :confused:

The controversy is NOT about his health and well-being. He's not hurt or under duress. Its about securing the bracelet. It must be taped. That the rule. No reason to question it. It like the Mom who wanted to know why her daughter's newly pierced ears couldn't just be taped. its the rule. Earrings out.

Can She Sit On The Bench With Earrings ???
 

No. She can't play with the earrings in. Let the player, and her Mom, figure out the rest on their own.

Actually, she can play with the earrings in. She just has to take her ears off. I've told some parents, coaches and players just that. :p

Citation Please ???
 

Each state association may authorize the use of artificial limbs which in its opinion are no more dangerous to players than the corresponding human limb and do not place an opponent at a disadvantage.

Is an ear a limb?

FWIW (not much), I agree with BBall_Junkie on this. The mom certainly gets a short-leash, and I'm wondering why she's ther and won't put up with any crap, but I'll listen before I decide whether she needs to be told to get back in the stands.

I think one of the key points to remember for medical alert bracelets is – what is their purpose? Diabetic? Insulin? Asthma? Heart?

Players and coaches know the rules. If coach, and mommy and daddy are present and a problem develops, they should of course KNOW of the medical situation and be able assist/inform the team or medical staff regardless if someone notices the bracelet taped to the body.

The issue is more important when no one knows about the problem and a situation develops.

I concur with bball and Bob though. If asked politely and nicely, I will address same.

Obviously, this is a web forum and although I can get long winded here, I can't type out a legal contract that discloses every little variation or scenario that may develop. If you try to do that with these types of questions, these become long-winded wizzing contests. I was addressing this qquestion from a big-picture and philosophical standpoint. Trying to parse each little way it can work is silly in this type of format. So I stand by my main point. This controversy has nothing to do with the kid's health. He's warming up for gosh sakes. Referee tells him that he needs to tape the bracelet. Mom needs not be involved in that situation. Is she going to argue that the red teeshirt he's wearing under his blue jersey should be allowed because she didn't have time to do the laundry yesterday too?:rolleyes:;)

If the fan topic comes up in casual pregame converse, I'll usually joke and say the only fans I hear are the good looking moms!
Worked a middle school game with a new official last week, crowd was vocal. Start of 2nd half, I was standing at midcourt waiting for the clock to reset and the defense to break huddle, when a blond mom sitting in the bleacher floor row, 2 ft away, casually asks me "Mr referee, did you tell your partner good job?" I look over and tell her I dont understand what she means. She-"Well if you told him that, you were wrong, because he's awful". Her husband(?) chimes in, several others do too. I just ignore and on with the 2nd half....

Thats why its so dangerous to converse with the fans. By not defending him, you just threw him under the bus in the crowd's eyes. Now every time he makes a call they don't like, their frustration will increase and there's no telling how tough it will be on the newbie. You need to have his back in that situation, and if you are any kind of partner will try and take the heat for him. He's got enough on his mind already.

Only time I'll joke with a fan during a game is if I hear "good call". I'll acknowledge it with "they're all good calls".

I understand what you mean.
However, I didnt want to say he was new, or get into a discussion w/fans on defending him (his calls and mechanics were rough and frankly, though new, wasnt doing a good job), so I dont think I threw him under the bus. I usually dont even talk to fans, but the "good job" part confused me enough to ask...

OK. he was new. We were all there once. Some of us had a great first partner and got us going, and some of us had a guy who let us hang out to dry under the philosophy of what doesn't kill us makes us stronger. Once you initiated a conversation with the fans, IMHO you owe it to your teammate (re; Partner) to defend him. At least a "He's doing fine" will let the fans know that he's your partner and you have his back.