Had three AAU girls games on Sunday...teams from three states, pretty good quality, ranging from 10-16 years of age. Partner was a long-time varsity-level official who has a well-known reputation of having a serious ego and a dominating way of working his games with coaches and his partner(s). In other words, a difficult partner to work with.

First game went fine. Second game was hotly contested, one coach in particular howling low-level throughout. Major controversy, however, involving time on the clock in the closing seconds. Partner wants to totally control the sitch, doesn't wany any help from me. OK, fine. Lots of yelling by both coaches and many fans; partner partially loses control.

Game ends, partner stuffs his game shoes in his gym bag, and loudly announces "I've had enough of this s***, I'm outta here," verbally abuses the timekeeper and me in front of both teams, and leaves in a huff. Also verbally tangles with a fan on the way out.

Another official from an adjacent floor did agree to stay, so we got the final game covered OK.

Questions: should I report this to the guy who assigned us to the tournament? What what would you say to this partner the next time you see him?

Yes - absolutely.

Nothing - because I would make it my business not to see him again.

I second Mark's reply.

Who would you report him to? It is not an OHSAA contest, so they wouldn't care. I guess it would be up to the tourney director to hire him again, and I assume he knows what happened.

Problem is that you probably will see him again. Maybe not on the same floor but in the same building. How are you going to handle it then is up to you. The best thing is to forgive him in your heart but put him on your "I will not call with" list.

I had to work with a guy who walked out on an official in the game before me. He walked out on that official and I finished his game. I heard nothing but bad about that official. The next week I walked into the building and found that guy as my partner. We had a good game because I never brought up the subject of last week.

I am with Brian
 

Who in the heck are you going to report it to? And better yet, if you did report it who the hell would care? Even if you did report it, it is an AAU tournament. It is not like the people that run these things have their stuff together where the official would be hurt by anything that happens there. I have had more officials stop doing those tournaments or games that I know of all because of crap that happens to them. Really a lot of serious officials stay away from many of these leagues or tournaments because of all the crap that goes along with them. Or at least let me say this, the ones that have moved up or aspiring to move up only do these leagues if they are asked by assignors that actually assign during the regular season. And that is almost so rare that it never becomes an issue that I have ever seen. But then again where I live probably does not apply to where this took place.

I agree that this official probably did not handle the situation in the best way. He probably should have stuck it out. But I also admire that he had the balls to do that. Depending on what was happening, it is not our obligation to stay and get abused. I guess I would just have to be there.

Peace

Clarification to My Original Post
 

AAU tournaments around here are typically assigned by someone other than the high school assigners. My question in the first post above is a little unclear.. it should have been "should I tell the guy who assigned officials to the tournament?"

This particular AAU game was not that bad. It was the championship game of the U12 bracket, very well played by the players, and both coaches really wanted to win. The complaining coach is, in fact, a local HS girls varsity coach. Let's put it this way... I've heard a lot worse on Friday nights in February. If my partner can't take in step what was said, then he has awfully thin skin.

In my little corner of the world, these tournaments are often worked by full-fledged varsity officials. I guess it's a chance to stay active with a sport most of us really like.

Not to stick up for the official that walked out, but, maybe something else was going on his life, maybe it was just a bad day, bad week. Maybe the official has thin skin, instead of reporting him, maybe asking, What happened? Might be a different avenue to take!
Just a thought!

AK ref SE

Re: I am with Brian
 

Report him the heck to the person who assigned the officials for the tournament. How hard is that? At least you won't have to work with him again in an AAU tournament.

I don't think I can be concerned with what else might be wrong in his life. He accepted the assignment. It's up to him to handle it professionally.

BKTBALLREF-
So I guess you have been perfect your whole life, have been professional in everything you have ever done, never have had a bad day.
My hats off to ya!

AK ref SE

Pretty obviously, Tony's not claiming perfection. Nowhere did he imply that. I agree with his point that even on the crappiest of days, we can't bring that onto the court. If an official is having that bad a stretch in his personal life, then turn back the assignment. It's only AAU, for crying out loud. If you can't deal with it, don't go out there. And no, I'm not perfect either. . . just ask my wife :)

Chuck

Re: Re: I am with Brian
 

Tony,
I'm with you there.
If he's having a bad day, he doesn't have to make me share his pain by stiffing me.
I ain't interested in his ego or his pride. He shoulda left that stuff in his car.
mick

Re: I am with Brian
 

Rut,

Do you ever do anything for the good of the game, or to give back something to those people and the levels of play where you learned some valuable lessons (even though not always fun)?

Your posts are consistently derogatory against anything that you feel will not help YOU PERSONALLY move up. While you do have that right, it would be nice to hear encouraging things from you occasionally.

Just a thought, since you never know who may be in a position to help or hurt you somewhere down the road.

I'm with Tony on this one. Any ref who isn't mature enough to leave the "off the court" stuff behind when reffing a game shouldn't be reffing in the first place. We all have bad days...none of us are immune to things weighing on us on game day, but we're professionals who have an obligation to leave it behind when we take the court. If it's so heavy that we can't leave it behind, turn the game back. It doesn't matter what level the game is, we owe the players our best effort.

I've seen a lot of crazy posts from Rut, but saying that he admires the ref for leaving is ludicrous. Rut's right that we don't have to tolerate being abused, but there are ways to handle out-of-line coaches and walking off the floor isn't one of them.

Report his unprofessional behavior to the assignor so none of the rest of us get stuck with him as our partner. :-)

Z

Re: Re: I am with Brian
 

More than likely the assignor already knows what happened,
after all we do get paid for AAU games and the assignor
is reponsible for who gets paid what. In any event I agree,
give the assignor a phone call & let him know you're the one
who got screwed by this jerk.

I agree.

No, I haven't been perfect my whole life and I'm not perfect now.

Yes, I try to be professional when I'm on the court or the field.

Yes, I've had bad days.

But I have NEVER, I repeat, NEVER showed my a$$, cursed aloud in front of fans, verbally abused the table or my partner(s) and walked off the floor without completing my assignment.

And the day that I do, I'll hang'em up.

And as far as taking your hat off to me, no thanks. Keep it on your head. I don't need it.

In the past, I have been the supervisor of officials for one local assn., and I will be again this coming season. I wouldn't tolerate this kind of behavior from a first year high school kid just learning to be a ref, let alone a veteran. I agree with all the posts that said this guy couldn't keep either the situation or his own emotions under control.

Maybe I'm spoiled. I have never let a situation get out of control to this extent. Of course, a lot of the reason for that is I work hard to make sure it doesn't happen. I can't believe he didn't have the option to have some kind of management personnel involved with the spectators.

Believe me, I have done my share of rec tournaments, but perhaps the fans around here are a tad more civilized.

Notice I said "a tad". :)

When it comes to fan behavior, take the advice of that sage, Barney Fife: "Nip it, nip it in the bud."

You have got to be kidding me, you must be kidding me.
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bigwhistle

Quote:

Rut, Do you ever do anything for the good of the game, or to give back something to those people and the levels of play where you learned some valuable lessons (even though not always fun)? Your posts are consistently derogatory against anything that you feel will not help YOU PERSONALLY move up. While you do have that right, it would be nice to hear encouraging things from you occasionally. Just a thought, since you never know who may be in a position to help or hurt you somewhere down the road.

Let me ask you this, do you live in a world that is possibly outside the world of officiating? For the "good of the game?" You must be one of those individuals that thought Ozzie and Harriet were real and that people actually lived like that at one time in this country. Well let me break it to you. This is real life. All people do not always act in the best ways. I would also assume that the individual that posted this did not know the entire story or did not talk to the official about things that made him leave. I love basketball as much if not more than most. I love officiating probably more than most here with the time and energy that I put into it. But I can think of several reasons that I would leave if the right things happen. Not because a coach or fan pissed me off, but if I was threatened or if I was treated in such a way that it got way beyond the game. This might have been the case and it might not have been. The reality is that we apparently do not know at all. All we know is the result or the action that was taken. I think it is very irresponsible to go running to assignors and individuals that have nothing to do with the tournament or that have nothing to do with this incident.

When I talk about officials to other officials I usually leave their name out of it. I do not make a habit and do not make a habit of running officials in the ground to "higher ups" or other officials. Usually I will not say anything bad about an official if even asked by "certain" parties.

I personally think it is much more unprofessional to report things that we do not know the entire story. You do not know what was going on here. We do no know if he had a ligitimate run in with a tournament director or had to deal with something that someone in charge should have had to deal with. We just do not know.

Finally, this was a freakin AAU TOURNAMENT FOR GOD SAKE!!!!! This is the place where the official is the last on the totum pole or last on the food chain. There are AAU Tournaments where officials are not even paid for any of their time. This is a place where kids spend more time about getting recruited and making a name nationally for themselves, rather than looking at how "sportsmanship" and conducting yourself accordingly is beneficial to us all rather than a stupid game. Remember, this is just a game. And anyone that does not see the bigger picture hear needs their head examined. Not because they are critical of what I think, but that you treat this vocation that we call officiating as the end all be all of reality. I sure hope you have much more things to worry about as an official then whether an official made the right decision or not. You never know, the official just might have realized the ramification of his actions. Give him some credit for that. ;)

Peace

Re: You have got to be kidding me, you must be kidding me.
 

Actually, Rut - Ozzie and Harriet were real and people really did live like that in the 50's. Their show was reflective of life in Eisenhower's America and the majority of teenagers had grades, dating, dancing and acne on the top of their list of worries.

Certainly, not everyone in America lived like that during those times, but there were huge numbers of families that did.

I know, because my family was one of them. Actually, we were more like the Cleavers.

Most of my friend's families were like that, also. Except, of course, the ones that were in the mob.

They were more like The Sopranos.

I will add another to your list.
 

I admire the official if his actions are and were for the right reasons. I am a human being first. Official is way down on that list of importance to me. And it appartantly is way down on this list of most people in this country, we cannot seem to get the numbers we had and no one wants to be an official but the ones that are officiating. One of the reason is because we would rather be critical of an official and report them anytime something does not benifit us. Unlike many here, the official realized what he was going to tolerate and what he was not going to tolerate. That is a very admirable quality and I would always want in a partner. We also do not know the encouragement or lack of encouragement that JAdams gave or did not give. We do not understand the entire story or this official's side of the story. If he were here posting, he might say his partner didn't do this and this did or did not happen. Not everything is worth getting $15 a game for (which is not very unusual to get for doing these games) or even $25 if you are lucky.

I do not expect a person like you or others to agree. You are probably one of those individuals that only side with the majority so that you can feel accepted in life instead of standing up for what you really believe. I for one do neither, but I do and will point out the "other" side. And without knowing the other side of this story, I think it would be highly questionable to "report" this official to anyone without making yourself look bad in the process. I am sure the tournament director or the people that is responsible for hiring the officials are completely aware that the official left. I am also completely sure that the other officials that sat around and watched this know what happen much better than any of us here. I am sure that the word will get around and if it does not, so be it. Do not forget that AAU Tournaments are run much like a Heavyweight Fight. The people that run many of these things are often only worried about themselves and having the fight. How they accomplish the fight or promote it can very from one fight to another.

To me there are many more worse things and official can do to be considered "unprofessional." Leaving before doing a game is not one of them. Sorry, it just is not the end of the world.

Peace

This a discussion for another day but.......
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark Padgett

Quote:

Actually, Rut - Ozzie and Harriet were real and people really did live like that in the 50's. Their show was reflective of life in Eisenhower's America and the majority of teenagers had grades, dating, dancing and acne on the top of their list of worries. Certainly, not everyone in America lived like that during those times, but there were huge numbers of families that did. I know, because my family was one of them. Actually, we were more like the Cleavers. Most of my friend's families were like that, also. Except, of course, the ones that were in the mob. They were more like The Sopranos.

With all do respect Mark, most of the country did not live like that. Only those that were mostly white and mostly middle class lived like that and even they did not live like that. For the rest of the poor white and people of color, they did not have a house with a white picket fence, 2 children and dog.

This is no more a myth than thinking the 1950s was the golden age of sports either. There were more scandals with organized crime and sports, the athletes were not very different from today (at least the elite stars). Do we need to bring up the NY City College Basketball scandal? Was Joe Dimmagio really that different than Frank Thomas in their personal life? Was Micky Mantle a better father than Cal Ripken?

I guess for some we would like to believe that everything was that more special or holesome at that time. But their is much more evidence that it was not very different. We just were not as honest about it then.

But as I said, that is a discussion for another day.

Peace

We may want to believe that

Rut, take a good look at your signature, here it is:

Getting better = Offseason. Now it is the offseason.


Doesn't quite agree with your posts in this thread.

(First game went fine. Second game was hotly contested, one coach in particular howling low-level throughout. Major controversy, however, involving time on the clock in the closing seconds. Partner wants to totally control the sitch, doesn't wany any help from me. OK, fine. Lots of yelling by both coaches and many fans; partner partially loses control.

Game ends, partner stuffs his game shoes in his gym bag, and loudly announces "I've had enough of this s***, I'm outta here," verbally abuses the timekeeper and me in front of both teams, and leaves in a huff. Also verbally tangles with a fan on the way out.)


JAdams: I had a similar game a few years ago (8th grade
boys' travel) where my partner, a vereran ref, got ticked off early in the game, and from then on in it was miserble. He ended up standing on the sidelines arguing with fans during throw-ins. He tossed his whistle at a
coach and told HIM to ref if he's so good. Basically, he
"lost it." The whole situation was akward, embarassing, and I wanted to crawl into a hole. I didn't have to call the assignor because he called ME.

In your game, it sounds like the other ref was just plain stubborn (not wanting your input on fixing time). The coach who was razzing him the whole game got to him, along with the fans. If it was that bad, there should have been T's and ejections, and perhaps fan removal BEFORE it ever got to the point of exasperation. He wasn't working with you as a partner, but wanted to be a one man show. Thus, he went down alone. Sorry, but I don't cut a ref any slack
for poor game management, regardless if he had a bad day, or if someone insulted him.

In my area, AAU is good ball, and it pays good $$$.

Re: Re: I am with Brian
 

Gotta jump in here a bit.

I've been in a sticky situation before. In our association, if you need a replacement and it's before 7 days before the game, you need to find your own replacement. Our local board assignor will always help you, and in some cases, find someone for you.

During large tournaments, finding a replacement is near impossible. I've had to referee during a morning where I've had visitations for someone close to me later that afternoon and evening. There's no way to handle this professionally, other than to go to your assignment and do the best you can. If anyone else expects different, they are expecting too much; from me anyways.

I firmly support in finding out why.

Re: This a discussion for another day but.......
 

I think we need a clarification. Did they or didn't they live like that?

Re: Re: This a discussion for another day but.......
 

Gary,
I think Rut's point was that Ozzie and Harriet were only rich Radio and TV figments of reality, and that O&H could afford to appear to be very happy and content.
I don't remember my white, middle class family being so perfectly aligned with the planets.
mick

I don't know that this is a board for debating the social morays of the 50's or their comparison to today, but I belive that the facts as presented show this official chose his behavior and words poorly and damaged both his reputation and that of the profession.

Life is not perfect, but we have jobs to do. I am new to officiating, but I watched my dad do it for over 20 years and I have been around officials as I played. There have been very few I was exposed to who have presented themselves in less than a professional manner. Of those who were less than professional, I never saw one lose it like the aformentioned official. Regardless of the situation, there are better ways to handle it. It is not the leaving that concerns me, I agree that there could be a situation where that would be warranted, but the balance of the behavior does.

Things happen in life, but our attitude is something we choose. How we present ourselves on the court or field reflects not only on us, but on those that came before and will come after. Officials in all sports struggle every game with perceptions of incompetance. We don't need to supply ammunition to people who are already shooting at us.

<i> Finally, this was a freakin AAU TOURNAMENT FOR GOD SAKE!!!!! This is the place where the official is the last on the totum pole or last on the food chain. There are AAU Tournaments where officials are not even paid for any of their time. This is a place where kids spend more time about getting recruited and making a name nationally for themselves, rather than looking at how "sportsmanship" and conducting yourself accordingly is beneficial to us all rather than a stupid game.</i>

A rather broad generalization based on small sample data don't you think Rut? Around here, AAU ball is fun and lots of us vets do it. The leagues have sportsmanship clauses and abuse just isn't tolerated and it's a great learning tool for us to improve the young pups. Sorry that you don't have good league support where you're at, but that sounds like a problem local to your area.

Besides, you have often posted that you never let a situation get to a point where an official would need to leave the floor. Seems a little contradictory that you would now side with an official who felt that it was so bad that he needed to leave. But then again, your pattern is to contradict yourself and then throw a verbal fit when challenged. Then you usually pat yourself on the back for being the only one with the cajones to have a different opinion and accuse the majority of living in a fantasy world.

But you are entertaining...kind of like the Osborne show on MTV. (no I'm not talking about Ozzie and Harriet) :-)

Z