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What would you have done?
Had a boys varsity game last night at a youth detention center. There was only 1 clock, no arrow at the table & an incompetent table crew (prisoners) who started/stopped the clock whenever they could remember.
So 2:31 left in the 4th quarter, home team down by 8… they inbound the ball in their b/c (I’m new L in 2 person game facing the lone clock) then the baseball pass to the big guy right in front of me. As the baseball pass is coming to me I sneak-a-peak & notice that the clock is still at 2:31 :eek: I didn’t want to kill their opportunity to score. I hoped the clock would miraculously start (once again) as the fans/coaches of the visiting team were singing the theme song of the night “start the clock”. It didn’t start and there was a quick shot, a miss, an offensive rebound, another shot, miss, rebound & finally a score. I hit the whistle & got intercepted by the V coach on my way to the table. He was livid, saying “I had to take some time off the clock” and he is protesting if they lose… I tell him I don’t have definite info to do so (no counts) & that protests are not recognized by the Feds in basketball. How could I have handled that situation better? |
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Not sure that's in your mechanics book though...... |
I think you did the best you could do under the circumstances. You said the clock was not being started/stopped correctly the whole game, now suddenly the coach has a problem.
Since I'm from Illinois, I recommend our fine Governor when he is behind bars to be on the table since he is used to running things. |
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I didn't know they had varsity games in jails; even juvies. Wow! Were they playing another detention center, or a high school? |
I would have told the coach that even thought the clock didn't start, the time still counted toward the kid's terms. :cool:
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You just stated that you DEFINITELY saw that the clock was DEFINITELY not started properly. Get together with your partner and decide how much time should be taken off. |
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That was the best part of working that game!! Quote:
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Yes sir they play all sports home & away. They were playing a regular 5A HS team. Beautiful facility with a nicer sound system than most regular HS. I had a nephew locked down there a few years back. |
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Maybe he would've hustled me a couple seasons ago, but 5-10-1 & 2 has taught me otherwise... Mick - You're right, that post-play was intense. Was hoping my tableside partner would sneak-a-peak & fix on his way to the f/c. Mark - It was the regular HS coach complaining :D |
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If time has come off the clock he goes away and there is no need to talk to him. Quote:
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Questions and a thought:
1) Did you or another official have some type of discussion with the timer about procedures for starting the clock? Seems from your post that this was an ongoing issue that the officials were not aware of or were aware of it and did not do anything proactive to rectify the clock management. 2) Sounds like a good issue for the vetererns on this board to give thoughtful guidance on how to handle a situation of this nature. 3) Is there anything specific in the rules that allows one to blow the whistle, go to the timer and tell em to start the clock when the ball is now inbounded? 4) If not a specific rule (do not remember one), how about the all encomposing one that allows the referee to make decisions not specifically addressed in the rules? Thanks |
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Thanks for the advice! |
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For the next time you go there:
1) Recommend that they pay the clock operator and the book people. This way, they have some leverage in making sure it gets done right. 2) Take a friend who can sit at the table and "help" 3) Have a friend sit at the side of the table with a very discreet stopwatch. During the game you keep your count arm going all the time, but your head isn't counting. Then when you do need to adjust the clock, it looks like you've got definite knowledge, which you do, with the help of your friend. 4) Be sure you and your partner are both highly attuned to the clock, and are constantly nagging at the clock person. In the OP, partner should have scuttled past the table and even pushed the button, if necessary. Maybe your association could assign it as a 3-whistle game so you'd have enough eyes for all 10 players and the clock. |
Hey Juulie, thanks for your thoughts on this!
1. But I highly doubt they are ever going to pay convicts. The powers that be were highly apologetic about the situation. It was more than them not starting the clock on time. You see it had a delay as well (at least that's what they said) Ex. TO with 6:02 on the clock, whistle ball in play, chop the clock a couple dribbles & the clock still shows 6:02. By the time you get ready hollar "start the clock" it magically shows 5:57. 2 & 3. It's tough enough to get a friend/family to come record my games, let alone back-up the clock person. 4. HTBT - it's a bad set-up. The benches are located in the normal position, but the table is about 10' behind the benches & in the stands :confused: Trying to locate the subs way back there was quite the challenge! Overall I hear what you're saying, thanks! I'm not there again this season, so it is all good :) |
Comments
It was a catch inbounds & a heave... partner said he had nada
Bad partner, always have a backcourt count, even if it is not visual. I didn't think visual & mental counts could be used one in the same... the mental counts don't show up on tape to support us taking time off the clock Your three second count is not visual. The rule says definate knowledge, if you have a count in your head that is definate knowledge, it doesn't call for you to visually count. Dont know about that but I'll check into it, I like the visual counts myself, not making up a count In federation you really are not supposed to do that, in college they want you to give your best estimate if there is no exact knowledge or a monitor to give the information, but I doubt there is a person in the gym that is going to argue if you did that. they do not know that it is not definate knowledge and I would bet you would be fairly close too. I hear you & we did all that, I said he intercepted me but failed to mention that he fumbled me too... Say it a second time and then if he persists WHACK for interfering with you doing you job. Did that... so I should've traded in one problem child for another? I figured he was the best they had to offer... It is the job of the administration to provide someone acceptable to you to run the clock that may mean that one of them has to do it. It is a bad situation and if this place is a part of the regular High school league they need to abide by those rules. You need to inform the league of the situation so that they can address it with the school. Let's face it you probably do not want to go back there and deal with that again. I imagine that most people would not either. So if they want professional officials they need to provide a professional atmosphere for them to work in. |
I wasn't there so I do not know how bad it was I think you did a fairly respectable job in handling the situation - I just think given your description there were some things you might have done differently, the most important would be to always have an idea of how much time has run off the clock any time you are having problems with a timer.
Clock awareness is a big thing and it is something that you have to concentrate on and work hard at. It will save you a lot of grief when you get good at it. You will find that clock awareness is not only the proper stoping and starting of the clock, knowing when if the clock didn't start - to blow it dead, (you made the decision not to kill the play so you should have started a count to allow for definate knowledge) or let them play on, and count, until you can stop and correct the time. It will evolve into handling the shot clock, the resets, all of which become second nature. If when you killed the clock you would have walked toward the table and said "timer please put 2:16 on the clock" - "Now coach what is it I can do for you?" that situation is done. If you had done that earlier in the game when you saw you were going to have this issue, the coach probably would not have even said anything to you because he would have known you had it under control. |
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I don't know if you're IAABO or not but our mechanics book says:
All situations that involve counting, except the 3 second rule require the official to display a visual count. I understand what you are saying about a count being visual. i believe that the reference would be to an official count (closely guarded, backcourt, inbound) but I do not see anyone giving you grief for a non visual count on the clock if you are having operator problems. Example: let us take a situation with only 3 seconds on the clock the ball is inbounded and a baseball pass (you notice the clock not running) caught in the lane and a try goes up and a miss, a rebound, a miss, a rebound, and a stick back goes in. You look up and the clock says 3 seconds? What do you do? |
Gotcha! That obviously took longer than 3 seconds, but with my mental count the game was over before the made bucket.
Thanks :D |
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