Tripping
 

I started refereeing for a kids Church league last year and found I really enjoyed it. I am attending training over the next few weeks through a local recreation department and hope to expand to doing other youth recreational leagues and maybe some middle school and eventually JV. While I certainly don't have hear the experience of most of the people on this forum I believe that if I am going to take on the role of officiating, even as a volunteer, I should do the best as job I chance. I have been reading this forum and looking for additional information to improve my skills.

I came across this video on YouTube:

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I understand that under 10-6-1 tripping would be a foul, but there seems to be no definition or signal for a tripping foul. The signal given in the video appears to be signal for kicking (although you can't fully see the mechanic the way the video is framed.

My questions is what should a trip be called as a foul and what is the proper signal?

Thanks

Blocking under NFHS rules.

10-6-1 . . .

What Nevada said....signal a block.

Thanks
 

If I had read 4-7-1 carefully I might have figured that out, once you posted it I reread the definition of a block and see how it fits. Guess you have to be careful about what you "learn" on YouTube!

wrwom,
Welcome to the forum. We hope you enjoy officiating as much as the rest of us do. Ignore your video. It's wrong. And he just signaled a kick.

1) As others have said proper NFHS signal is a block or push - whatever is appropriate

2) NCAA (Appendix VII) is the trip, which is the same as the kick

3) In regards to the video... O...M...G

When, under any rule set, can the second example of a player tripping another player during a live ball be a "technical" foul?

the funny thing is, this looks like one of the videos by "Expert Village". Hilarious how the "expert" videos are consistenly, disasterously, wrong. I concur, OMG all the way.

Keeping it simple and without writing the entire definition of NFHS 4-19-5 a thru e, a tecnical in a nut shell is:
A foul by a non player.
A non contact foul by a player.
An intentional or flagrant contact foul while the ball is dead.
Because of the live ball in the video you could have a common, an intentional, a flagrant or a flagrant intentional.

There was a series of Expert Village baseball umpiring videos we laughed about for a few days on another board. These "expert" videos are only good for showing what NOT to do.

Didn't know you got a "side out" after a foul...

Old Habits Are Hard To Break ...
 

Be sure to use your open hands on your hips, not your fists. You're new, so it should be easy for you to start doing it, and keep doing it, the correct way. For some reason, twenty-eight years ago, I started using my fists on my hips, and even though I know it's wrong, I'm still doing it, at the site of the foul, today. By the time I reach the reporting table, I remember, and use my open hands on my hips.

It is an ExpertVillage video

NCAAW uses the closed fists.

The video is obviously wrong in many ways, but doesn't he contradict himself several times? I think he said that a non-deliberate trip is a violation (Huh?), but an intentional trip is a regular foul...then he also said at one point that it's a technical foul.

Those videos are bad.

A lot of local areas do not care how you signal a block as it relates to the fists or the open hands. This certainly does not apply across the board.

Peace

When In Connecticut, Do As Connecticutians Do ...
 

Our local board is supposed to only use NFHS approved signals, with one Connecticut exception: Point to the floor with one finger to indicate foot touching 3 point line (i.e. 2 point field goal is being attempted).

I've always like the fists, especially in a block/charge situation. The fists, when needed, help me to sell the call. Evaluators will always comment on the fists rather than the correct open hands. Hard habit for me to break. At least I'm halfway there (site/reporting area).

Signaling Foul Shot Violations in Basketball | Expert Village Videos

Here is a video about "Signaling Foul Shot Violations"...whatever that means. He keeps calling fouls violations.

The rest of the videos are there. Be sure and check out the video about inbounding the ball. He claims that you can't move your feet side-to-side at all on a spot throw-in and he uses a three-point try signal instead of an open hand when doing his five count during a throw-in. The guy's description says he does high school games. This scares me.

Edit: After watching more videos, I'm even more appalled. On the "Signaling Over and Back" video, he says that once you get two points over the line, you can't go back to the backcourt. He then instructs us to stop the clock with a closed fist.

I wish evaluators would worry more about judgment and less about things like this.

I'm a hip banger. Sue me.

I am not really talking about whether they use NF Mechanics or not. I am simply saying that there are many places where no one is splitting hairs if you use a closed fist or an open hand whether it is on block call or what we affectionately call a "hack." Some places are more anal than others when it comes to those kinds of things. And I have never read anywhere that the NF wants such a technical application of such signals anyway. This is usually someone that sees the picture and thinks if you do one thing out of place something is drastically wrong. That is not always the case in different parts of the country one way or the other.

Peace

Especially since we're now using rally scoring in basketball.

"Land of Steady Habits" ???
 

I have. It is here in may little corner of CT. If this is what my evaluators want, this is what they'll get, at least, the best I can. The days of officials creating their own "style" have been long over here in Connecticut.

2008-09 POINTS OF EMPHASIS
5. OFFICIALS’ MECHANICS AND SIGNALS. Communication and consistency remain the most important elements of good officiating. It is essential for officials to be familiar and comfortable with proper NFHS officiating mechanics and signals. The primary reasons for utilizing only approved NFHS mechanics and signals are: Effective court coverage related to Primary Coverage Areas; Effective communication between officiating partner(s); Provide immediate information and feedback to coaches, players, scorers, timers and fans. Signals are used to communicate and should never be used to call attention to the official. The majority of signals are used to indicate what has or is happening. Approved NFHS signals are dignified, informative and meaningful. The use of unauthorized signals frequently confuses, because the meaning is unknown. Problems are also created when officials engage in “hit and run” officiating. This occurs when an official blows the whistle and immediately leaves the area without taking the time to follow the proper procedures for calling the foul or violation. Signals should be given in a manner that is calm, under control, unhurried and professional.

I agree to a certain extent, but you have to walk before you can run. For a new official, it's easier to get the signals correct than it is to get the judgment correct. As an official progresses, critique should become more about judgment; but in the early stages, especially, I think mechanics are important to focus on.

Billy,

I think you missed my point here. A few years ago on the NF Manual and in the Rulebook, the NF changed the picture to an "Illegal use of Hands" to an open hand chop, to a closed fist chop. People were using the closed fist chop for years and only the ultra technical cared. This change from what I remember was not made public or included in any changes the NF made that year in the Manual. A similar situation took place in relationship to the "holding" signal. The holding signal used to look exactly like a football official hold. Now the signal looks like it has been taught for years, off to the side and closer to your shoulder.

In my experience as long as you do similar to what the Manual shows, I have found very few people that really cared either way. Actually if you use the Manual for that much detail, most of the positioning was often not considered correct when it came to normal teaching of mechanics. The book would only show very basic stuff and if you were more advanced you used stuff that was not listed in the Manual. Maybe this is a problem somewhere, but not where I live and the places I have worked most of my career. I know as a clinician in my state I do not split those kinds of hairs when evaluating officials in or out of camps.

Peace

Please tell me we don't have to play each quarter until somebody reaches 25? :eek: If so, what do I do if 30 minutes before Wednesday's game time, I'm still working Tuesday's freshman girls game?

I Like The Fist Chop, And The Fist Block Better, And, They're "Cooler" Signals ...
 

You're right. The 2003-04 manual shows the open hand chop. The 2004-05 manual shows the closed fist chop. I don't remember the change. I believe that when I started twenty-eight years ago (really twenty-nine, our first year on IAABO is considered a probationary year, and we don't become full members until the end of that probationary year) I was taught, by my partners (that's how we learned mechanics back then, no clinics, no camps, no mechanics exams; the rules, and calls, were emphasized back then, not mechanics), the open hand chop. Somewhere along the line, I don't remember exactly when, but it was a lot earlier than 2004-05, a lot of officials, including me, went to the closed fist chop. Same thing with the open hand block. That's what I was taught, but so many well respected veterans were doing the fist block, that I started doing it that way too, even though I knew it was wrong.

Bottom line. My schedule, including the level of games, and the number of games, is based on my ranking, which is based, among other things, on my ratings. Mechanics seem to be stressed a lot more now, then when I started. So, "When In Connecticut, Do What Connecticut Evaluators Do".