Inquiring minds part 2
 

A1 on a spot throw in. A1 sets ball on the floor (oob, next to his feet) and wipes his hands off on his socks. B1 reaches across the "plane" and grabs the ball. Has B1 done anything wrong? Call, no call?

I Thought My Play Was Odd ...
 

The defender may not break the imaginary plane during a throwin until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass. If the defender breaks the imaginary plane during a throwin before the ball has been released on a throw-in pass, the defender’s team will receive a team warning, or if the team has already been warned for one of the four delay situations, this action would result in a team technical foul. If the defender contacts the ball after breaking the imaginary plane, it is a player technical foul and a team warning will be recorded.

By setting the ball on the floor, A1 has, indeed, released the ball, however, I don't believe that there has been a throwin pass.

Has A1 done anything wrong?

Oh good heavens, here we go again.

I'll tell you what, I solemnly swear not to get into any long-winded arguments about whether or not A1's action is a pass or not, if somebody promises to find A1 and ***** slap him into a coma for causing so much trouble while wiping his hands on his socks. :D

Agreed! And kick him while he is down as well!

-Josh

I agree with the call for DELAY, but what about the action of placing the ball on the floor? I don't think your Sit. applies in that regard. Any argument for a throw in violation by A1 for his action, thus making the reach across irrelevant? Is that what BITS is referring to?

I wish these minds would stop inquiring. It IS the weekend. These make my head hurt.

I'm worrried about my 401(K) ???
 

Great citation Nevadaref. I thought that this would end the thread until I read Bad Zebra's post after yours. In the citation, it states that, "No Team A member ever possessed the ball for the throw-in; therefore, a technical foul would not be assessed". However, in the original post case, the Team A player did have the ball at his disposal for a throwin. Close, but no cigar, yet.

Great citation, followed by a great followup question. No off topic posts, no images, no name calling, no inside jokes. I think that this is what the moderators were asking for several weeks ago, and this is what Scrapper1 predicted would happen.

Scrapper1: Has the stock market bottomed out yet?

OK. Here we go.

Rule 9-2-2: The ball shall be passed by the thrower directly into the court from out of bounds so it touches or is touched by another player (in bounds or out of bounds) on the court before going out of bounds untouched.

Penalty: The ball becomes dead when the violation or technical foul occurs. Following a violation, the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throw in at the original throw in spot.

So then, knucklehead A1 violated by placing the ball out of bounds untouched to dry his hands. TWEET! Dead Ball...reach across is irrelevant (ball is dead). B throw in the other way.

Maybe he deserved the violation for picking a live ball opportunity to dry his hands? In any event, this is a lot of thought for a Saturday morning.

Yeah but A1 can also bounce the ball OOB prior to the pass inbounds....so if he sits it down you call a violation but he drops it and it bounces twice while he wipes his hands you dont?

No violation... Delay of game

The Plot Thickens ...
 

Another monkey wrench is thrown into the Forum machine. This is great, but, I'm just going to sit back and watch. I don't want to get hurt.

Wasn't aware of that. Citation or case?

Another Myth Bites The Dust ...
 

A player inbounding the ball may step on, but not over the line. During a designated spot throwin, the player inbounding the ball must keep one foot on or over the three-foot wide designated spot. An inbounding player is allowed to jump or move one or both feet. A player inbounding the ball may move backward as far as the five-second time limit or space allows. If player moves outside the three-foot wide designated spot it is a violation, not traveling. In gymnasiums with limited space outside the sidelines and endlines, a defensive player may be asked to step back no more than three feet. A player inbounding the ball may bounce the ball on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throwin.

I'm sure that someone will post the real citation in a few minutes.

Got It ...
 

NFHS 9.2.2 Situation D: A1 dribbles the ball on floor on the out-of-bounds area before making a throw-in. Ruling: Legal, a player may bounce the ball on the out-of-bounds area prior to making a throw-in.

Jeez Louise...can this get any more muddled?
 

Well...there we have it. Seems the Fed allowed this case to fly in the face of it's own rule. Luckily, in the 8 years I've been doing HS ball, no one has ever dribbled a throw in I was administering. Not sure what I would have done...

With regard to the OP then, we need to debate whether placing a ball OB is materially different than bouncing it. Doesn't seem like a rule book is going to help here. Headache seems to be coming back.

"No Dog In This Fight" (Michael Vick), Remember Him ???
 

Do what I'm doing. Just sit back and enjoy the ride.

Who You Gonna Call ?
 

That's why we have the Mythbusters.

Here's a little stronger ammo, I think, to the dribbling while OOB for a throw-in question:

NFHS 6-1-1 "The game and each extra period shall be started by a jump ball in the center restraining circle. After any subsequent dead ball, the only way to get the ball live is to resume play by a jump ball in the center restraining circle, by a throw-in or by a free throw. The dribble and traveling rules are not in effect in these situations."

NFHS Basketball Rules Fundamentals, #5 "5. Neither the dribble nor traveling rule operates during the jump ball, throw-in or free throw. "

Is This What They Mean By An Esteemed Member ???
 

Great citations. Just what we would expect from a Forum member with almost 4000 posts, who is also a Mythbuster.

Very enlightening posts gentlemen. I can say I truly learned something new today.

However...That still doesn't resolve the case from the OP. Would placing the ball on the floor fall under the rules concerning dribbling or traveling?

From what I can tell the rules don’t say a thing about it being illegal for A1 to place the ball on the floor once the ball is at the thrower’s disposal. However, it does say that a defender cannot cross the boundary line and further more may not contact the ball. If the defender does cross the line, then we have a delay of game warning or a T if this is the second delay. If the defender also contacts the ball (in the possession of the thrower or not) we also have a technical foul.

A player shall not:
10-3-11 . . . Reach through the throw-in boundary-line plane and touch or dislodge the ball as in 9-2 Penalty 3.

What rule? The rule says a throwin pass may not touch the floor OOB before going IB. Placing the ball on the floor or dribbling it do not equal a throwin pass, therefore it's not against any rule.

It's neither. There is no such thing as a dribble or travel during a throwin. A1 may do a jitterbug or a dribbling demonstration during the throwin (or both) so long as he releases the throwin pass within 5 seconds.

Thank you. Somebody else who gets it.

Could you post a video of this, please? :cool:

I dont think it is as muddled as it appears....I have mdified thre rule with the definitions...

Rule 9-2-2: The ball shall be thrown, batted, or rolled by another player by the thrower directly into the court from out of bounds so it touches or is touched by another player (in bounds or out of bounds) on the court before going out of bounds untouched. The opeartive word is pass

If he aint passing and drbbling and traveling dont apply during a throw-in, it must be legal.... If it's not prohibited, it is allowed.
i

Negative Ghost Rider.

What's a negative ghost? :confused:

I'm Positive ...
 

Why would you find this confusing. It's the opposite of a positive ghost.

Two atoms are walking down the street and they run into each other. One says to the other, "Are you all right?". "No, I lost an electron!". "Are you sure?". "I'm positive!".

Hey. I'm a chemist. That's the best I can do. No one can compete with Mark Padgett.