legal or illegal dribble

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Look, if simply applying a downward force met the definition of "pushing the ball to the floor", then holding the ball and touching to the floor would be a dribble, wouldn't it? You're pushing the ball to the floor, and the ball strikes the floor. That's got to be a dribble. But the rules specifically tell us it's not. So your version of "pushing" doesn't meet the requirement of a dribble.

By making that argument you are failing to acknowledge that one of the implied tenents of the definition of a dribble is that the ball must be released--contact with the hand must cease.

That is not directly stated in 4-15, but the final sentence of 4.15 Comment let's us know that information.

Furthermore, your whole argument centering on a lack of pushing the ball TO THE FLOOR is silly because one could argue the same thing about pushing or throwing the ball straight up into the air and then allowing it to bounce on the floor. One could contend that the player pushed it towards the ceiling and not the floor, so it doesn't meet the definition of a dribble. Silliness.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

By making that argument you are failing to acknowledge that one of the implied tenents of the definition of a dribble is that the ball must be released--contact with the hand must cease.

If you want to officiate by implied tenets, feel free. I referee by the rules. And all I'm doing is telling you what the rules say. The rules say that a dribble is started by pushing, throwing or batting the ball to the floor. On your definition of "pushing" -- imparting a force in a particular direction -- then when the ball is touched to the floor, a player in control has pushed the ball to the floor and the dribble has started. End of story. That is clearly not true, however, since the casebook tells us explicitly that holding the ball and touching it to the floor is not a dribble. Therefore, your definition of "pushing" cannot be correct in this context.

One could contend that the player pushed it towards the ceiling and not the floor, so it doesn't meet the definition of a dribble. Silliness.

And in that case, I would contend that the player has thrown the ball to the floor. You don't have to throw the ball directly at the floor in order for it to be thrown "to the floor".

This has now, IMHO, become a silly debate. This is not a violation of any kind. Those of you who would like to make something out of it, feel free.

[jdmara]

I think this discussion is very interesting.

One question though...A1 just received a pass from A2 and starts a dribble. He then ends his dribble. While holding the ball out in front of him with both hands, he intentionally drops the ball and catches it after it bounces. (A) He moves his pivot foot. (B) He does not move his pivot foot. Is this a violation?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, just curious after this discussion. Before reading this, I would have called a violation since he intentionally released the ball a second time. *shrug*

-Josh