Yelling In The Crowd (Another Official)
 

I was working a game tonight. Fairly decent game, throughout the game I would hear my name being called from behind the losing teams bench, I just knew the general area it was coming from and didn't think much more about it.

2nd half comes around, middle of 4th quarter, I banged a block call out on the top of the key, fairly easy call, not much thought about it, all the sudden I hear my name being called again about pushing off and maybe it will be called sometime tonight. I turn around and all be damned if it wasnt another official that I have worked with (it was his son I called a block on). To top this all off I work with the guy Saturday.

My question is: Should I bring it up Saturday and say anything? Or play it off? I guess I could say that I finally figured out who your kid was halfway through the 4th when you started yelling. Let me know what you all think.

I think the guy is an ***.

I understand where he is coming from. He is just one of those engulfed parents, but there is no way on this earth I'm letting him get away with yelling at me without cracking on him about it or straight out ridiculing him, whichever goes with your personality. I wouldn't let him off the hook so easy. That's for sure!

I would remind him that being an official attending a game, you must remain impartial because the view from the stand is different then the view on the floor.

I would have tossed him during that very game. And then puked on his shoes. But as to Saturday, don't bring it up yourself, but if he even hints at the incident, be sure you mention how completely unprofessional it was for him to say anything about your calls. It's inexcusable. ALso be sure your assignor/commissioner knows.

It's bad enough to comment about another refs calls publically, but, to yell your name out for all to hear? I agree with Juulie - low. Personally, I'd say something to him.

I agree.

That kind of behavior would not fly in my area.

Unfortunately, MOofficial may be in a location where there isn't an assignor, or even a referee association, who can do anything about it. He could be somewhere where the ADs hire their own officials, and associations have no say at all.

Why the new moniker?

Well said, Amen.

the only thing I would do different is bring it up at the game; fella would know what I thought of him, and his response would dictate whether I blackball him or not. Either way, the assigner finds out.

My guess is if you're in an area with varied partners, you have an assigner. If not, it should be easier to not work with him again.

The way this guy was acting is unacceptable -I agree.

I also disagree about going directly to assignor/association. It would depend how well you actually know the guy. Alot of times you can handle these with a simple "what the Heck was with that act at the game." Like you say point out its innappropriate and then let his reaction dictate the next step.
You have all indicated the view from the stands is different and as a parent sometimes the emotions can take over. A little knowledge about the game can sometimes be dangerous, you know.

Now that your all going to rip me a new one for saying my opinion. I do not condone this behaviour and calling a fellow official out to show them up is plain wrong. I was not there and don't really know how this actually went down. Just so you all know a similar situation happened to me and when only one side of the story is presented it can be misinterpreted.

Thats it. Let er rip!

I work as part of an association. I would call him after the game and ask him "WTF!!!???", especially the part about him yelling out my name. If I wasn't happy with his response then I would address it with my commissioner.

Or I wouldn't say anything then in the pre-game for our game together I would talk about how we are going to handle a$$hole fans.

While I agree that the use of your name was completely unprofessional and should not have been done, I also understand the "dad" yelling about calls - I have been known to do the same thing from time to time. I never use any adjectives or other words to describe a call (That's a horrible call, etc.)...but when my sons are playing, I have a hard time not noticing things that are just not right. Example: son establishes LGP and then gets rolled by the kid driving to the basket - ref calls block on son. Explanation to coach is "He was moving backwards coach, never got set. He needs to take it like a man to get a charge call from me." I said some things to that official - and when he brought it up at a meeting several weeks later, he heard the same things again. The notion that someone has to stop being a dad just because they are an official is incorrect. I need to remain calm, and have had to get up and walk out of gyms at times, but when something blatantly wrong occurs, I will say something to the officials. I will never call them by name, I will never call them out, but I will say "How can that be...?"

Juulie - so glad you're "back". I know you know the Immortal Dave. Toward the end of one game I was working, he was in the stands waiting for the next game. He yelled, "Hey, Padgett. Are you pregnant?" I ignored him until he yelled it a few more times. I finally responded, "OK, Dave - I'll bite. No, I'm not pregnant. Why do you ask?" He answered, "Because you missed three periods!" :eek:

BTW - thanks for using the "puked on his shoes" reference. It brings back fond memories. :D

I would have had him removed
 

Don't care who he is or about next Saturday, If he shouts my name while talking about calls from the stands it's personal and I hope the game is on the radio because that is the only way he is going to experience the end of it.
the administration would do it though I would not directly toss him.

As an official you are always an official when watching a game, you can root like a parent no problem, but you have to remember that people who know you, - know that you are an official so what you do is liable to come back and haunt you some time.

Even as a parent, he can disagree with a call, but to "call you out on it personally" that is classless, feel free to Puke in his shoes or shorts for that matter. As an official you have to remember that once people see you on the floor you will always be an official in their minds, so how you act will reflect upon everyone else in the profession.

I believe that you have to call him on it though, directly or with some association back up, it just gives us all one more black eye.

Think about the guys a couple of years ago in the locker room that said some inappropriate things that were over heard through an air duct that ended up getting suspended for a few games. More recently there were some guys who went out to have a burger and a beer after agame and there was some issue about something they said amoungst themselves.

I like the idea about bringing up how to deal with A$$ hole fans in your pregame especially if it is a three man crew to see how he responds.

I am of the opinion that we are a brotherhood...even if we don't like what a fellow official is doing/calling. The other parents on your team know you are an official and they already think ALL officials are blind and don't know the rules. Now you start yelling at the officials and only reinforce their thinking. I go to my kids games and see all kinds of things I don't agree with but I never say a word. If they come to me later and ask I always preface my comments with "of course I didn't have the same look you did but this is what I thought". Being an official has somewhat distanced me from being an overzealous fan.

Now to answer your question...I had this happen and had a fellow official removed. I never brought it up with that official and never will. I know this official is a very smart person and I truly believe they realized what they did was inappropriate. If this person brings it up then we will discuss it and hopefully it will be a professional conversation. Since this happened there has been enough opportunities and it has not been brought up so I doubt it ever will.

What would I do if this happened again? I would handle it almost the exact same way. The game management would be notified that this overzealous fan has to leave and I would wait til he brought it up. The only thing I would change from the first time is to make sure I notified the assignor right away. This was just brought up at a recent meeting so I'm sure those in attendence will not be doing any of this nonsense.

I look at it this way. If an official in the stands doesnt know any better and is yelling out the working officials name, then do you really think saying "what the Heck was with that act at the game" is going to make him see the light? Of course not! That person is either too stupid or too new.
If he did it once, he'll do it again until OFFICIALLY reprimanded- hence notifying the assignor/assoc. Dont pass the buck to the next crew.
Though we are taught to ignore fans unless extreme (hello game mngmnt), I might also have him removed (htbt) for being an official using my name-- ...if its just another fan that knows my name, I may just ignore him

I see no problem with holding officials to a higher standard than other fans.

People in the stand know this guy is an official and now he's making the statement that it's OK to do what he's doing.

I also guarantee you that he's throwing you under the bus with these same people.

I have a face to face with the guy as soon as possible with an understanding that should he do it again, he will become parking lot personnel.

If he has a problems with it, I take it to the the next appropriate level. If he still has a problem with it, I take it to our fellow officials.

Ugh. That's breaking the golden rule, IMO. I feel for you. I wouldn't make too much of a deal out of it, but I would let him know that I didn't appreciate it and I wouldn't seek out working together with him in the future.

I would have no problem with this. In the situation you described, they are simply not applying the rule correctly. It's a common myth that the defender has to be "set" in order to take a charge. Most officials know that's not the case, but I can see where newer officials may not have conquered that myth. I think it would be fine to approach the official (perhaps not at that particular game) and politely explain the rule.

I personally think this should be handled "in house". I don't think there is any need to talk to the assignor. JMO

To me, this largely depends on how bad the behavior was.

Well like i said its in house. If he is acting half as bad as a crazed fan i am going to acknowledge him and tell him (wouldn't do this normally, but i know him AND he's an official) to cut it out. if he persists then i will eject him with no worries or doubts and then i guarantee you we will have it out after the game or in the lockeroom of our game together. After that it will be over and if he wants to continue with it and act unprofessional, i will let him hang himself by acting the same way to another crew and when he does, both crews can take it to the assignor, so you can show it is more than an isolated incident. But i am going to attempt to take care of it privately and it will also give him a blackeye when i eject him.

I think it is healthy sometimes to have it out with your partners and have lively, and even sometimes heated debate, but we as a crew and as an individual cannot and must not let it leak onto the floor.

[QUOTE=MOofficial;550526]ITo top this all off I work with the guy Saturday.
QUOTE]

So what happened on Saturday?

Mregor

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Juulie,
Welcome back! You've been away far too long and we've missed you! I agree that its inexcusable, but I probably wouldn't toss him. If he's that immature, he probably wouldn't learn from being tossed anyway. I used to work with a guy who got tossed routinely before he started officiating. My how his eyes were opened when he stepped on the court the first time.
I DO agree with you about NOT bringing it up. But if he did I'd probably pounce on him like a cat on a mouse!

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I do the same for school officials, school board members, and other clergy!!! Some of the loudest howler monkeys I've heard have been preachers, teachers, principals, and superintendents. They looked ridiculous and made some of the stupidest comments. There's something wrong with a professional looking so unprofessional.

The commish or assignor needs to know right away.

This is not something to be handled "man to man." Because in the end it isnt about you and him. Its about him understanding his obligations to the association--which isnt between you and him. He has to set an example. The other parents know he is a ref--and certainly the clock, book and coaches know it. It undermines confidence in the association and in all the refs. On top of being totally unprofessional. Dont confuse this as a problem between two officials.

I dont know about tossing him. I had this happen once and at half time I came out a minute early and mosey'd over to him with a smile on my face to "say hi" (or so he thought) and asked if he could ramp it down a notch with a smile. At first he started to balk and I told him that my only other option was to ask the game manager ot have him leave and I didnt want to do that (though I think he got my point that I would have done that). He got the message and cut it out. He said sorry. I did it as discreetly as a guy in a striped shirt can do it. I tried to make it seem like it didnt bother me in the least. I appreciate that isnt always possible--you dont know the guy well or he is sitting way up in the stands or whatever. Whatever you do, I wouldnt make a show of it. That's why I dont like the obvious toss.

But the assignor needs to know. THEN I would talk to the guy (if you want to talk to him) and say, "hey listen, you put me in a spot at that game. I felt I had to talk to XXX about that stuff, since it impacts our relations with coaches and the book and clock operators to see stuff like that. I appreciate you cut it out but we gotta be together on this stuff." He was chilly to me for the rest of the season. But the start of the next season he came up to me and appologized and said I had done the right thing. I had the travel on a game where he had the game before mine just Friday. All was good.

Why? The guy's poor behavior and criticism of his fellow official was clearly public.

What would you do if this was just an fan, who got out of line?

I would hold the official to a higher standard than the fan so if you deal with the fan by having them tossed you have to toss this clown, and if you just have the administration talk to him about his actions you at least do the same for this guy.

Once you have him bounced or dealt with it becomes an issue for the school and the kid probably wants his dad tossed anyway for making a fool of himself.

your choice with the assignors but I don't care if that guy was the assignor I am not tolerating that behavior from a fan I really am not going to take it from a brother official.