Scorer changes team member, player, number in scorebook ???

[BillyMac]

Penalized when they occur, after ten minute time limit; A maximum of one technical foul per team regardless of the number of infractions, 3a, 3b, 3c; The infraction occurs when the scorer is advised to add to or change the scorebook; The foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball next becomes live; Once the ball has become live, it is too late to penalize: A team shall not require the scorer to change a team member, or player, number in the scorebook (with exception), after the ten minute time limit; Team technical foul; If there is no request for change, or if a team member does not become a player, thus avoiding the change, there is no penalty.

What if said player participates, unbeknown to an official, and is then substituted for, and is sitting on the bench? It seems too late to penalize. Am I correct? Can it be penalized the next time the player enters the game, before the ball becomes live?

[OHBBREF]

once they are in the game and the ball is live they are legal and can not be penalized -

how could you now say that they are not legal after that?

[Adam]

If the scorer makes the change without telling you, it's too late once the ball becomes live; whether or not the player is still in the game.

If they change the book again (for a different player, for example), then you penalize. I'm adding this to my scorer pregame talk this year.

[Nevadaref]

I disagree with both responses so far.

OH is applying an inappropriate rule. The proper rule to apply is the one that deals with changing the scorebook. It has nothing to do with the legality of the player.

As for Snaq's response, I cannot permit a scorer to allow a team to get away with a clear infraction, if I have knowledge of the offense. I'm penalizing this one as soon as I learn about it.

[just another ref]

I'm with Nevada on this one. "Penalized when they occur" has no expiration time that I'm aware of. When the official becomes aware, that's when it occurred, as far as he is concerned.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I'm with Nevada on this one. "Penalized when they occur" has no expiration time that I'm aware of.

It doesn't? "The foul must be charged when it occurs and enforced when the ball next becomes live; Once the ball has become live, it is too late to penalize".

ref;550791: I'm not really disagreeing, or agreeing, with you. I just want these penalties to be less confusing for me, and would like to keep the debate going until I get some clarity. Thanks for the response.