What do you have?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Okay. I am going to take a different position on this play.

Yes, smack the T for not having a free throw violation by the FT shooter, A1, on the second FT.

Now, for the play near the division line. First, this looked like an intramural game at the 8th or 9th grade level, meaning that the skill level is not that great. Second, I agree that A1's attitude about the second FT did not look good. BUT, I watched the play five times in real time and another five times in slow motion. AND here is what I saw: A1 started to move to get in front of the dribbler B1; he did not obtain a legal guarding position with respect to B1. A1 did not turn and duck until B1 went airborne. Furthermore, I did not see any contact between A1 and B1. MEANING, I have nothing on this play. If there was contact it is a common foul for blocking foul by A1 on B1.

MTD, Sr.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

MEANING, I have nothing on this play. If there was contact it is a common foul for blocking foul by A1 on B1.

Interesting. Isn't it nice to have the luxury of the video and to watch it over and over in our homes? Of course, when it happens live I wonder if anyone else notices the "little to no contact" that actually occurred. Regardless, it's gonna get a whistle! Wonder what the call actually was?

[cdoug]

Okay, maybe it's because I'm still learning the rules and haven't officiated a basketball game yet but I need help "seeing" what you all were talking about when you said a violation on the shooter for the 2nd FT attempt. I read 9-1 multiple times as well as rule 8. I'm quite sure I'm just missing it but would like to know what "it" is so I can learn and improve quicker.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by cdoug

Okay, maybe it's because I'm still learning the rules and haven't officiated a basketball game yet but I need help "seeing" what you all were talking about when you said a violation on the shooter for the 2nd FT attempt. I read 9-1 multiple times as well as rule 8. I'm quite sure I'm just missing it but would like to know what "it" is so I can learn and improve quicker.

He left the half circle. 9-1

[rlarry]

Free throw Violation
Flagrant Technical. Mommy's little angel dove under the player for no apparent reason. He needs to learn how to act or sit his fat arse down

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rlarry

Free throw Violation
Flagrant Technical. Mommy's little angel dove under the player for no apparent reason. He needs to learn how to act or sit his fat arse down

Larry, it's gotta be a personal, you can't call a technical for live ball contact. If flagrant, it's a flagrant personal.
It makes a difference on who shoots the free throws and where the ball is put back into play. Although in this case, the ball would be put back in play at close to the same place.

BTW, in real time, I'm going with flagrant on this.

[Adam]

I disagree with the thought there was no contact. I see dribbler's knee, at least, contacting the turd's head. On this play, it doesn't take much contact for the flagrant.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Larry, it's gotta be a personal, you can't call a technical for live ball contact. If flagrant, it's a flagrant personal.
It makes a difference on who shoots the free throws and where the ball is put back into play. Although in this case, the ball would be put back in play at close to the same place.

BTW, in real time, I'm going with flagrant on this.

For this play, I agree....personal or nothing.

However, if the act being penalized is a deemed a "fight", it is a T. Fighting is always a T without regard to the status of the ball. (4-18, 10-3-9). The infraction is not for the contact itself but the attempt to contact, whether successful or not (4-18-1). Just because the infraction results in contact doesn't change it from a T to a personal, the infraction is already commited when the swing is made. The result is irrelevant.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

BUT, I watched the play five times in real time and another five times in slow motion. AND here is what I saw: A1 started to move to get in front of the dribbler B1; he did not obtain a legal guarding position with respect to B1. A1 did not turn and duck until B1 went airborne. Furthermore, I did not see any contact between A1 and B1. MEANING, I have nothing on this play. If there was contact it is a common foul for blocking foul by A1 on B1.

MTD, Sr.

I agree with Mark.

Dribbler/passer was airborne before defender "went low"
Defender knew he couldn't get LGP, so it looks like he tried to avoid contact by awkwardly falling.
There was no contact.

Nothing.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by CoachP

I agree with Mark.

Dribbler/passer was airborne before defender "went low"
Defender knew he couldn't get LGP, so it looks like he tried to avoid contact by awkwardly falling.
There was no contact.

Nothing.

I'd look at that again. Why would A1 go airborne to begin with? This is no awkward attempt of avoidance. Notice the concern for player he undercut, and I detect a slight smirk on his face. If I 'have nothing' on that play in a Varsity game in my state, they'd revoke my license.

If you didn't think he touched him, I'd use 4-19-14 an unsporting foul is a noncontact technical foul which consists of unfair, unethical, dishonorable, conduct or any behavior not in accordance with the spirit of fair play

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by CoachP

There was no contact. Nothing.

So, did you talk to your son after the game about goofing around during his free throws?

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

So, did you talk to your son after the game about goofing around during his free throws?

Nice!!!!!!!!!

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

So, did you talk to your son after the game about goofing around during his free throws?

Actually, I thought that video was up in your leagues area....all the Adam Morrison lookalikes....

Originally Posted by fullor30

I'd look at that again. Why would A1 go airborne to begin with? This is no awkward attempt of avoidance. Notice the concern for player he undercut, and I detect a slight smirk on his face. If I 'have nothing' on that play in a Varsity game in my state, they'd revoke my license.

If you didn't think he touched him, I'd use 4-19-14 an unsporting foul is a noncontact technical foul which consists of unfair, unethical, dishonorable, conduct or any behavior not in accordance with the spirit of fair play

Agree to disagree, I guess. I slowed it down frame by frame, (as well as youtube allows) . If anything, it looks like defender starts to take a charge, realized he wasn't going to get it, stopped and turned his back and started to duck...falling away from iminent contact. Meanwhile, dribbler, assuming there is going to be a train wreck, changes direction, then leaps to make a one handed circus pass. Since the defender is no longer there, his "non contact fall" looks awkward.

I see no "intent" for a "chop block".


but....Seeing your point, in real time, live in the gym, I would have no problem a blocking call went on the defender. I just got nuthin in 16 slow motion reviews.....

As a side note:
When my players complain on any officials call:

"Coach, I didn't ________________ (fill in the blanks)"

I 'usually' respond with, But it LOOKED like you _________________"

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by CoachP

Actually, I thought that video was up in your leagues area....all the Adam Morrison lookalikes....



Agree to disagree, I guess. I slowed it down frame by frame, (as well as youtube allows) . If anything, it looks like defender starts to take a charge, realized he wasn't going to get it, stopped and turned his back and started to duck...falling away from iminent contact. Meanwhile, dribbler, assuming there is going to be a train wreck, changes direction, then leaps to make a one handed circus pass. Since the defender is no longer there, his "non contact fall" looks awkward.

I see no "intent" for a "chop block".







but....Seeing your point, in real time, live in the gym, I would have no problem a blocking call went on the defender. I just got nuthin in 16 slow motion reviews.....

As a side note:
When my players complain on any officials call:

"Coach, I didn't ________________ (fill in the blanks)"

I 'usually' respond with, But it LOOKED like you _________________"

"If anything, it looks like defender starts to take a charge,"

Please tell me your joking, this clown has no idea what he's doing. Charge to him is something Mommy does at Nordstrom's.

[kmw]

call

a. free throw violation for leaving semi circle.

b. if I kicked the violation and then the play happened - I have a flagrant personal. If I don't call this - then I have to worry about the fight that will be happening...

And then I go home and worry about writing my report to the state because once my assignor finds out I kicked the violation and then this happened I would get a tongue lashing.

As much as we look at this situation - nothing is as it seems- we have no idea how the game ended.