Basketball faceguarding!!!
 

A couple of weeks ago in a rec league basketball game we had a game where the official called a violation on a player for faceguarding another player on a long pass. I said that the play is legal, what say you?

Your brother was right. It's not legal.
In fact, it's not a violation; it's a technical foul.

Can you give me the NF rule book number for this?

10-3-7d.

I found it in the case book, it's rule case 10.3.7 situation A. Thanks for your response!!!

For Coaches And Fanboys Who May Not Have A Rulebook ...
 

NFHS 10-3-7-d Player Technical: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as: Purposely obstructing an opponent’s vision by waving or placing hand(s) near his/her eyes. NOTE: Purposely diverting an opponent’s attention by waving is different than holding or waving the hands near the opponent’s eyes for the express purpose of obstructing the vision so that he/she cannot see.

This year the rule number has changed. It's now 10-3-6d. Go figure.

Good call, Snaqs !
I've got this year's books and last year's books on the same snap ring.
You can guess which book I opened.
I kicked another one.
Thanks.

Just checked, and sure enough, the case number has changed to match. 10.3.6A

HA! I was really confused for a few moments. I thought I was going to have to go get another cup of coffee because either my book was misnumbered or I have lost my mind over night. Good catch!

-Josh

Am I misinterpreting this rule or misunderstanding the OP?

Faceguarding is not an illegal. Faceguarding an opponent is having your back turned to the ball and you face your opponent in an attempt to deny him/her the ball. The illegal part of this rule is to "purposely obstructing an opponent’s vision by waving or placing hand(s) near his/her eyes." I believe we have two distinct actions in the case play (10.3.6 SITUATION A) and they might be misinterpretted as one action. Faceguarding does not mean having your hands in the opponent's face (or at least that's not the way I've been taught as a youth and seen it been taught by many collegiate coaches).

"10.3.6 SITUATION A: Does holding or moving a hand or hands in front of the
face of a player who has the ball, by an opponent who is in a legal guarding position, constitute unsporting tactics? RULING: Yes. The described action is illegal. It is unsporting for a guard to take a position behind a post player, or to take a position facing an opponent, or to take a position with his/her back to the ball and facing the opponent and then in either case, wave or hold the hands in front of the opponent’s eyes so that the opponent cannot see. Holding or waving hands near the eye for the ostensible purpose of obstructing an opponent’s vision is unsporting. (10-3-6c)"

Just my thoughts

-Josh

My read of the OP was that by "faceguarding," he meant obstructing the vision with the hands.

Josh - I was thinking the same thing as the post developed.

"Faceguarding" (as possibly this ref interpreted the play) as the "NFL-like" term of guarding a player with your back to the ball and never "playing the ball" is not a basketball violation or technical foul. My interpretation for basketball is the part about "waving or holding the hands in front of the opponent’s eyes so that the opponent cannot see" is the definition of "Faceguarding" I use. JMO

This is why I wanted to make the statement. I think it's a little confusing, especially for newer officials to read. Waving of the hands in front of the opponent's eyes is to obstruct the opponent’s vision is unsporting and earns a technical. The mere act of facing an opponent (guarding) with your back to the ball, is a legal act. (Or that's my interpretation)

-Josh

I guess I never would have considered that to be what someone means when they say "faceguarding."

Well, you apparently didn't have the same youth coaches, or see the same many college coaches teaching that as Josh did. :)

Guess not.

I don't know why the term, faceguarding, sticks out so prominently with me. Am I wrong in my definition? I'm definitely not trying to step on a soapbox and say what I think it right, if it's truly not the intent of the rule.

-Josh

he NCAA has made this simplier:
" Purposely obstructing an opponent’s vision by waving or placing hand(s) near her eyes. "

the wording is the same for men and women the penalty is different - it takes away any option if you are trying to obstruct vision you now have the option to deal with it.

Well, Josh, other than the basic *first time on the court* elementary basketball player who was told to guard her/his opponent and not allow them the ball, have you ever seen a basketball player staring at an opponent with no regard for where the ball is ?
And writing that you have seen coaches teaching that tactic in a college setting, several or many times, and expecting anyone here to take that as truth, is quite a leap of faith. :)

I've actually observed Lute Olsen coach one of his players to do it back in the late 90's ;) I can't for the life of me remember what year that was however or why they were in the midwest (might have been a tourney practice or something). I remember because a player from the hs in which I graduated was on the team. About three years ago, I was observing a UK practice (which I had a tendency to drop by since I worked at the University) and remember Tubby Smith talking about it. From what I have gathered from the few experiences I've seen it in the college game is that it's a technique to deny the scorer the ball with an undersized defender.

I wouldn't pull it out of my a$$ ;) I've been around enough to see the thrashings people get around here for statements they can't back up. Didn't mean to make a seemingly arrogent statement.

So, I guess to answer your question...I have actually seen a collegiate basketball player faceguard. Undersized defender on the other team's leading scorer. I'm sure it was used during the game but I, honestly, didn't pay attention if it was used during the games.

-Josh

P.S. I lived for faceguarding in HS, I was that undersized defender ;)

At just under 6'0", I, too, was an undersized defender in high school, ... but I owned the ball if it went below the waist. :)

As a 5'6" giant, undersized was an understatement. Going into the lane was a foreign concept in HS. I guess that's why I played most of my minutes on the bench because I just wasn't tall enough. Most of my minutes were played faceguarding an opponent because the "better player" was earning too many fouls. I blame my parents for that physical deficiency :p

-Josh

We called that "fronting" our opponent rather than "face guarding." Is that what you're talking about?

Okay, so now I am back to my original thought that it was not a violation, but now I must defend my thought by saying that it was not a violation because the defender was not specifically waving his hands right in the face of the offensive player. The more i think about it, the more I believe that to be the case. Agreed???? or no???

Well, yeah !?!!
It ain't a foul for lookin' at an opponent.
Even Josh wouldn't get called for that. :)

I wouldn't be obstructing his view with my hands straight up, I"m not tall enough. :rolleyes:

Was he waving his hands in front of the opponent's face? I guess I'm still unclear about that :o

Perhaps I am incorrect calling that faceguarding. It's been noted

-Josh

All right, Rev, I think you need to more clearly describe what was being done.

1st post on the forums, so hello to all.

I was also taught to "faceguard" in HS. This tactic was specifically used in a full court press situation, where we were looking to deny entry to the guards. It allowed us to focus specifically on them and hope for the inbounder to throw the ball over the top. When they tried this, we used our secondary coverage/defenders to attack.

As for "fronting," that is the act of defending between the post player and the perimeter player. You are not "facing" the offensive player in this scenario, you're just trying to defend the passing lane.

Concerning the reason that the term "faceguarding" came up, it's probably from watching football. Faceguarding in football is very common among defensive backs. (I don't like it personally, but oh well) It allows for the DB to react to the movement of the WR and attempt to interrupt the pass by throwing their hands into the expected location of the ball, based on the WRs hand position. It takes excellent reaction to do this effectively.

Welcome to the forum! Stick around for awhile and enjoy the ride ;)

-Josh

What he said. :)

It is not illegal to wave hands in front of a player. It is only illegal if you put your hands near their eyes. And if you do football, this would be illegal and you probably want to clear this up for officials that work other sports.

The problem with this discussion is the fact people are assuming things rather than using the actual subscribed wording.

Peace