Sample test Qs are fun-Not!
 

OK, here's another funky Q- I told our cadet sup that if I saw this on the exam and got it wrong and failed by one point, I was coming after all of them...

- A team is always granted at least one additional time out without penalty at the start of the first overtime period.

True or False?


I said False. Obviously the sup said the answer was True. My logic is that both teams are always granted ONE additional time out, not AT LEAST one- that implies teams could get more than one. The explanation was that yes, teams get one, but they also carry over whatever is left from regulation time. OK, I know that, but how is that relevant to the way the question is asked? What's wrong with the answer that says- False, teams are always granted only one additional time out per extra period, not always at least one!!

We are being told not to "read into the question" too much. I'm seeing a lot of reading into Qs but also a lot of assuming facts that are not in the question? Overall, I am happy with this training program, but the practice tests are starting to piss me off.

I think I'm probably making too much of this, but I'm not sure....? When there are 170 Qs and you need an 86, there ain't a whole lot of room for error, especially for ambiguous questions....

Z

Terrible question with a terribly incorrect answer, IMO

-Josh

Based on my (limited) knowledge of grammar, I would have to agree with you. However, the opposing view would hold that at the end of regulation, technically (no pun intended), they lose whatever timeouts they still had but then are "granted" an amount equal to that for the extra period, therefore the use of the term "at least" would be accurate.

However, I would hold that since the extra period is considered an extension of the 4th quarter (all fouls, team fouls, timeouts, etc. carry over), then the already earned timeouts (if any) would not be "granted" for the extra period but do actually "carry over", making the term "at least" inaccurate.

Bottom line - don't expect the NF rule book (or tests, for that matter) to be a shining example of grammar and proper sentence structure.

While I agree the question could be better, "one" is "at least one", so the statement is True.

If they get one, then by definition they get at least one. I understand that it may muddy the waters to phrase it that way, but technically, it's not incorrect to say it that way.

Why does the NF write the questions in this manner?
 

Surely they realize we discuss/struggle every yr?! Yes?

Why can't it just say - T/F - Each team is granted one additional time out without penalty at the start of the first overtime period.

Or is that no good too? (I am not mister grammar guy, but I did stay at a Holliday Inn Express last night).

this wording of this question is really bad imho

the use of the word "granted" is misleading...the rule reads "each team is entitled to one additional 60 second time out DURING each extra period" 5-12-1

you can't "grant" this time out "at the start of the OT"...it can only be "granted" after the ball has become live to start the OT ....5-12-4

It may not be any consolation, but the Fed test Q's in Baseball and Football are similar with unusually worded sentences. I'm assuming (lol) the same 2 guys purposely switch things up to cause discussions...

stupid wording - A team isn't "granted" a timeout unless they request it first.

Allocated is a more proper term, yes?

This Q is interesting b/c the vets can have a conversation around it.

Logic and grammar pundits note that the Q is technically true.

Newbies will likely get confused. I know that I did/would be.

I don't think the Q is constructive.

Exam Writing Should Be Left Up To The Professionals ...
 

IAABO exams are probably as bad, if not worse. Why can't they pay a high school English teacher to sit down with the committee to go over the final draft?

You all should know that our cadet sup drafted the question, it wasn't taken from a past IAABO exam.

Most of the responses were voiced at some point during our discussion in class, and there were many differing opinions. I suppose that I am beginning to get very worried about the structure of the questions if this is any example of what to look for in November...

I have some old refresher exams and prior IAABO tests to review and I hope to not see a lot of this type of problem. It's not so much improper grammar, but the language is just plain confusing... we are told not to "read into" the question, just deal with what it says, yet on at least 3 questions last week, we were told that we were to use certain assumptions in answering the questions, yet there is no indication of assuming anything in the question...

I don't want to beat this to death (lots of folks have passed the exam who are above and below my level of schooling), but I think its a problem...

Is that true? You only need an 86 out of 170 to pass the Officials test? And it's open book? But I can't drag out the rule book during a game?
:p

FWIW, I agree that question is vacillatingly written.

CoachP - what do you need to score on your annual exam to become a coach and maintain your certification? :D

While "exactly one" exists in the domain of "at least one", they are far from being equivalent. There are an infinite number of, well numbers, that are at least one. "Exactly one" is only one of them. I have to agree with Zeedonk. The answer to the question, as written, is false.

By the way, suppose the IRS changed the 1040 to indicate your tax liability was "at least" the amount on line whatever. Imagine the uproar :D

I believe it means a grade of 86% correct is required to pass

There are always a couple test questions that are poorly worded. Over time you'll get used to reading them and get a better understanding of what the questions are asking. It is very frustrating the first few times around though.

Gee, ya think? ;) I learned a long time ago (not being Mr. Grammer or Spelling Guy), you have to pick and choose your words very carefully here.....and I am still not good at it! Words like should, could, might, may, at least can get you in trouble (just like the exams)....and some of the folks here are pretty sharp - and as doubleringer states - experienced!

It's becasue there are aloways going to be a few poorly worded questions that you only need 86% to pass.

Certification? We don't need no stinkin certification!:D

I did take the MHSAA referee rules test a few years ago. Got two wrong. :(

It is what it is. If as you say your "cadet sup" drafted the questions, then you need to take it up with him. No amount of complaining about it here is going to change that.

Secondly, if you think missing 23 questions on an open book rules test isn't enough margin for error, then you need to rethink your dedication to rules knowledge and interpretation.

I disagree, the statement is true, as written. The statement says nothing about sometimes being more than one. Since one is "at least one," there is nothing false about the statement.

I don't see an uproar over the 1040 change you propose, either. Anyone with brains is going to pay that least amount, and anyone without brains won't be reading their 1040s anyway.

Open book? Are you serious? I thought open book tests went out in 6th grade... Nobody has told us that. What else don't I know? (Insert multiple jokes here) About the test, I mean... Can I bring the case book too? That would help!

Obviously many have come before me, both wiser than me and not, and they all got through it... so, yes, its frustrating to have these issues, but hey, words have meaning!

Maybe I'll start writing my own questions.

If the question said they were granted a number of timeouts that is at least one, I'd agree. But "at least one" is an infinitely large set of numbers, not a single number from that set. Semantics, I admit. But still incorrect.

As for the 1040, the real question would be: What does the IRS think "at least" means? :D

Really? :confused: Seems that you can miss 84!

You may want check your numbers, but by my math you only need to answer just over half of the questions correctly.

86 / 170 = 50.6%


Of course, you probably meant to write that there are 100 questions! :D

Nevada, typically, when someone says they need "an" 86, that imlies 86% rather than 86 correct answers. At least, that's how I've always heard and used that phrase.

Hey, I'm having some fun here. You STFU. :p

"Qui Transtulit Sustinet," (He Who Transplanted Still Sustains)
 

Coaches need a stinkin certification in Connecticut.

http://www.ctcoachinged.org/

Coaches is Canada are required to obtain certification through the NCCP program.

http://www.coach.ca/eng/index.cfm

It's definitely a good thing for society up here.

Ouch, I think this is where I'm supposed to stomp away and cry, right?

I meant we need 86% to pass... We took a practice exam in late August that had 170 questions on it, so that's my reasoning for the 170. Of course, we haven't been told anything about the exam other than the date and we need to pass it.

So, for those of you who've taken it- what's the format? 100 Qs? T/F? "Open Book"? Is there some major secret about a national test for basketball officials that cadets aren't informed of until we learn the secret handshake? Should we have been given this information already? Results the same night (aka "instant justice")?