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-   -   Pass Goes Behind the Backboard, Through the Supports (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/49164-pass-goes-behind-backboard-through-supports.html)

MajorCord Tue Sep 30, 2008 09:26am

Pass Goes Behind the Backboard, Through the Supports
 
Player A is falling out of bounds under his own basket. He throws the ball behind his back in an effort to save the ball. In doing so, the ball goes from one side of the lane to the other, passing directly behind the backboard, and somehow comes down on the other side of the lane without hitting any supports where it is caught by a teammate. Officials had a "no call". A D-1 official observing said that the play should have been whistled. He says that the ball cannot pass directly behind the backboard. What say you guys and gals?

Scrapper1 Tue Sep 30, 2008 09:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorCord (Post 540186)
the ball goes from one side of the lane to the other, passing directly behind the backboard, and somehow comes down on the other side of the lane without hitting any supports where it is caught by a teammate. Officials had a "no call".

Correct.

Quote:

A D-1 official observing said that the play should have been whistled. He says that the ball cannot pass directly behind the backboard. What say you guys and gals?
I believe that might be the NBA rule. In HS and NCAA, however, it's only a violation for the ball to pass OVER the (rectangular) backboard.

Ch1town Tue Sep 30, 2008 09:36am

Being on top of his rules is one of the reasons he is a D1 official.

NOTE: If the backboard is fan shaped the ball may pass over the backboard without violation.

CoachP Tue Sep 30, 2008 09:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch1town (Post 540190)
Being on top of his rules is one of the reasons he is a D1 official.

What "rule" was violated?
:confused:

grunewar Tue Sep 30, 2008 09:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch1town (Post 540190)
NOTE: If the backboard is fan shaped the ball may pass over the backboard without violation.

I was always curious about this one - why is it different for a fan shape as opposed to a rectangular shape? Anyone know?

Adam Tue Sep 30, 2008 09:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachP (Post 540195)
What "rule" was violated?
:confused:

Pretty sure Ch1 was being facetious.
Nothing illegal here, nothing to see, folks. Play on.

Adam Tue Sep 30, 2008 09:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 540198)
I was always curious about this one - why is it different for a fan shape as opposed to a rectangular shape? Anyone know?

Because with the fan shape, it's hard to tell if it goes "over" or "beside". :)

Kingsman1288 Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:33am

I actually had this happen to me during a game. I no called it, and then some official who was in the stands cornered me after the game and blasted me for no calling it. I asked him what rule he was specifically referring to, and he was really vague about it. Just kept on repeating it was in the rule book and I needed to go look.

Next time I saw him was at a DII college game getting his a** chewed out by his supervisor for blowing some calls.

Indianaref Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by grunewar (Post 540198)
I was always curious about this one - why is it different for a fan shape as opposed to a rectangular shape? Anyone know?

Lobbyist. Help keep the fan shape manufacturers going. I think they are going to need a bail out.

btaylor64 Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:43am

so... in college is it legal or illegal? Like someone said earlier, this is illegal in the pro game, so I don't want to blow it in a college game, so what is correct?

JS 20 Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:48am

There is a rule regarding passing the ball over the supports or over the backboard. However, I believe (without looking this up) that this only applies to a throw-in pass. So if you're on the baseline and you pass it over the backboard/supports to the other side of the court, then you have a violation........I think :)

Ch1town Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachP (Post 540195)
What "rule" was violated?
:confused:

No rulebook with me today, but I believe the NOTE under "rule" 7-1 should clarify. I think...


Quote:

Originally Posted by JS 20 (Post 540222)
There is a rule regarding passing the ball over the supports or over the backboard. However, I believe (without looking this up) that this only applies to a throw-in pass.

No sir, this would apply to any shot or pass (throw-in or amongst players).

Adam Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:06am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JS 20 (Post 540222)
There is a rule regarding passing the ball over the supports or over the backboard. However, I believe (without looking this up) that this only applies to a throw-in pass. So if you're on the baseline and you pass it over the backboard/supports to the other side of the court, then you have a violation........I think :)

The rule is about passing over the backboard, not across or behind it. IOW, if it goes front to back or back to front, it's a violation. But if it goes from left to right or right to left, it's not a violation regardless of whether it's behind or in front. It does not matter if it's during a throwin or not.

The only time a throwin matters on this is if the ball passes through the basket.

BktBallRef Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch1town (Post 540226)
No rulebook with me today, but I believe the NOTE under "rule" 7-1 should clarify. I think...

There's nothing in 7-1 or any other rule that makes the OP illegal.

Ch1town Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:36am

I stand corrected. Had to go back & re-read the OP. This line got me: "passing directly behind the backboard".

Reading IS fundamental!

Adam Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch1town (Post 540243)
I stand corrected. Had to go back & re-read the OP. This line got me: "passing directly behind the backboard".

Reading IS fundamental!

I hate it when that happens.

bob jenkins Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by btaylor64 (Post 540216)
so... in college is it legal or illegal? Like someone said earlier, this is illegal in the pro game, so I don't want to blow it in a college game, so what is correct?


The NCAA rule and the FED rule are the same on this issue.

Ch1town Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 540244)
I hate it when that happens.

It aint so bad, keeps me in check as far as humility & paying attention to detail :o

SamIAm Tue Sep 30, 2008 01:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 540230)
The rule is about passing over the backboard, not across or behind it. IOW, if it goes front to back or back to front, it's a violation. But if it goes from left to right or right to left, it's not a violation regardless of whether it's behind or in front. It does not matter if it's during a throwin or not.

The only time a throwin matters on this is if the ball passes through the basket.

You sure about the ball having to go front to back or back to front? Side to side or diagonally would allow the ball the go over the backboard. Those sitch's would however be more difficult to see.

Just looked up the NCAA rule - it reads "over the backboard from any direction".

Camron Rust Tue Sep 30, 2008 01:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 540201)
Because with the fan shape, it's hard to tell if it goes "over" or "beside". :)

It is no harder than for a rectangular backboard. The fan boards still have vertical edges on the sides....if the ball is inside of that, it is over the top.

My opinion...

Its a matter of likelihood in combination with the original reason for the rule. The rule came about when Wilt Chamberlain's team would lob a baseline throw-in over the board for him to slam in. If I'm not mistaken, the NBA and most, if not all of D1, had converted to rectangular backboards by his time. It was a completely indefensible play...so they made it illegal for the ball to cross over the top of the board. There is rarely a "normal" play where the ball also goes over a rectangular board. As for fan shaped boards...they're much smaller and it is much more likely for a ball to go over the top in the course of normal play. Not wanting to stop the game unnecessarily and knowing that fan boards were used in places not likley to be affected by Chamberlain-like players, there was no need to illegalize it for fan shaped boards.

Adam Tue Sep 30, 2008 02:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamIAm (Post 540270)
You sure about the ball having to go front to back or back to front? Side to side or diagonally would allow the ball the go over the backboard. Those sitch's would however be more difficult to see.

Just looked up the NCAA rule - it reads "over the backboard from any direction".

Side to side, perhaps. If it literally passes over the top of the board in a straight line parallel to the back board, this would be a violation.

If it's going diagonally, it's still moving from the front of the board to the back of the board (or from back to front). The point is that the ball has to be, at one point, physically in the partial plane directly above the glass for it to be a violation. Going between the support structures does not qualify.

Back In The Saddle Tue Sep 30, 2008 02:10pm

Thanks, Camron. That is the first reasonable explanation of this I've ever heard.

Adam Tue Sep 30, 2008 02:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 540287)
Thanks, Camron. That is the first reasonable explanation of this I've ever heard.

Agreed. It makes sense, it's simple, and it's sufficient.

Back In The Saddle Tue Sep 30, 2008 02:16pm

For those whose books are not readily at hand...

NFHS 7-1-2: ART. 2 . . . The ball is out of bounds:
b. When it passes over a rectangular backboard.

NCAA 7-1-3: Art. 3. The ball shall be out of bounds when any part of the ball passes over the backboard from any direction.

Had never really thought about it before, but I suppose a pass from one side of the key to the other, that passed over a rectangular backboard the long way, would also be illegal.

Question for the brain trust...How much of the ball must pass over the backboard? If only a portion of the ball passes over the corner of the backboard, is that illegal? Must it be the entire ball?

CoachP Tue Sep 30, 2008 02:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 540290)
For those whose books are not readily at hand...

NFHS 7-1-2: ART. 2 . . . The ball is out of bounds:
b. When it passes over a rectangular backboard.

NCAA 7-1-3: Art. 3. The ball shall be out of bounds when any part of the ball passes over the backboard from any direction.

Had never really thought about it before, but I suppose a pass from one side of the key to the other, that passed over a rectangular backboard the long way, would also be illegal.

Question for the brain trust...How much of the ball must pass over the backboard? If only a portion of the ball passes over the corner of the backboard, is that illegal? Must it be the entire ball?

Technically, I can stand in the exact corner of the playing court and shoot a three. It does not count then? It HAS to go over the corner, from the back, to fall in.........

Back In The Saddle Tue Sep 30, 2008 02:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachP (Post 540296)
Technically, I can stand in the exact corner of the playing court and shoot a three. It does not count then? It HAS to go over the corner, from the back, to fall in.........

That's at the heart of my question. The rule seems pretty black and white, with no exceptions listed. Except that "over" needs a little more defining when we start thinking about things like the shot from the corner. And, of course, if we allow this shot (which I think we should), then you have to ask "how much over, or how far over, is 'over'?".

Adam Tue Sep 30, 2008 02:47pm

I think you have to go back to the intent of this rule. The intent was not to disallow a shot from deep in the corner. The intent was to prevent the indefensible plays, as Camron noted.

To me, this is a clear example of when the spirit and intent should overrule what would be a violation by strict interpretation of the written rule.

Two, I've seen balls shot from the corner go in that did not go over the glass. I know it didn't because they grazed the side of the glass on the way by.

JS 20 Tue Sep 30, 2008 02:48pm

I went and re-read the rule and then asked myself why it was in place. The best thing I can come up with is that it puts the defense at a disadvantage to steal, tip, etc. the pass when you're behind the board and pass it over the top to someone on the other side. That said, the defense has the exact same opportunity to block the shot in the corner that they have anywhere else on the floor so it shouldn't matter in that instance. Just my $0.02

Adam Tue Sep 30, 2008 02:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JS 20 (Post 540305)
I went and re-read the rule and then asked myself why it was in place. The best thing I can come up with is that it puts the defense at a disadvantage to steal, tip, etc. the pass when you're behind the board and pass it over the top to someone on the other side. That said, the defense has the exact same opportunity to block the shot in the corner that they have anywhere else on the floor so it shouldn't matter in that instance. Just my $0.02

Camron has told us the origin of the rule:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 540272)
Its a matter of likelihood in combination with the original reason for the rule. The rule came about when Wilt Chamberlain's team would lob a baseline throw-in over the board for him to slam in. If I'm not mistaken, the NBA and most, if not all of D1, had converted to rectangular backboards by his time. It was a completely indefensible play...so they made it illegal for the ball to cross over the top of the board. There is rarely a "normal" play where the ball also goes over a rectangular board. As for fan shaped boards...they're much smaller and it is much more likely for a ball to go over the top in the course of normal play. Not wanting to stop the game unnecessarily and knowing that fan boards were used in places not likley to be affected by Chamberlain-like players, there was no need to illegalize it for fan shaped boards.


Back In The Saddle Tue Sep 30, 2008 02:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 540304)
I think you have to go back to the intent of this rule. The intent was not to disallow a shot from deep in the corner. The intent was to prevent the indefensible plays, as Camron noted.

To me, this is a clear example of when the spirit and intent should overrule what would be a violation by strict interpretation of the written rule.

Two, I've seen balls shot from the corner go in that did not go over the glass. I know it didn't because they grazed the side of the glass on the way by.

Agree about the intent. But the wording of the rule, and presumably the intent of the rule makers, don't limit its enforcement to just the Wilt Chamberlain play. Which leaves us with the need to determine where between the corner shot and the Wilt play the ball is enough "over" that it's a violation.

The rule is widely (if not accurately) known. So there's a reasonable chance that on any ball that comes close to passing over the backboard, a coach is going to ask for a call.

bob jenkins Tue Sep 30, 2008 03:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 540307)
Agree about the intent. But the wording of the rule, and presumably the intent of the rule makers, don't limit its enforcement to just the Wilt Chamberlain play. Which leaves us with the need to determine where between the corner shot and the Wilt play the ball is enough "over" that it's a violation.

The rule is widely (if not accurately) known. So there's a reasonable chance that on any ball that comes close to passing over the backboard, a coach is going to ask for a call.


On anything EXCEPT the George Mikan play, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the offense. So, in all likelihood, the entire ball will have to pass over the backboard to be a violation. (especially since we are at an angle to the backboard, and far enough away for depth perception to be an issue)

On the George Mikan play (not that I ever expect to see it), I might be more strict.

Ch1town Tue Sep 30, 2008 03:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 540307)
The rule is widely (if not accurately) known. So there's a reasonable chance that on any ball that comes close to passing over the backboard, a coach is going to ask for a call.

I'm all for the coaches asking for that call. It will be a nice change of pace, instead of a steady diet of travel requests. I welcome variety :D

Adam Tue Sep 30, 2008 03:24pm

I've blown this call once, and nothing was said by the "offended" coach. Of course, I believe that was a sophomore game, and those coaches weren't particularly chippy anyway.

You're right, though; obviously the line is somewhere between the two plays. Personally, I put the line a lot closer to the Chamberlain/Mikan play than the shot in the corner. Legitimate shots can be defended normally.

To put it into practice, perhaps I lean towards thinking the entire ball has to be over the back board to qualify.

Back In The Saddle Tue Sep 30, 2008 03:33pm

I'm happy to go with the entire ball. That makes my life easier, it's relatively easy to judge, and is probably closer to the intent of the rule than any other option.

It doesn't sound like anybody knows of any official interp on this. Not even after the UCLA game last year?

rainmaker Tue Sep 30, 2008 04:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 540290)
For those whose books are not readily at hand...

NFHS 7-1-2: ART. 2 . . . The ball is out of bounds:
b. When it passes over a rectangular backboard.

NCAA 7-1-3: Art. 3. The ball shall be out of bounds when any part of the ball passes over the backboard from any direction.

Brushing up on college rule citations for any particular reason, BITS???:D:D

Camron Rust Tue Sep 30, 2008 06:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachP (Post 540296)
Technically, I can stand in the exact corner of the playing court and shoot a three. It does not count then? It HAS to go over the corner, from the back, to fall in.........


Not possible....geometry

(from an post by me in March regarding a shot that went over the top)
Front tip of the rim is 24" from the backboard. Backboard is 6ft wide and 4ft from the baseline, lane is 12ft wide. The point on the baseline that leads over the corner to the very front tip of the rim is 3' outside the lane...and that is just to the front tip....an unmakeable point without crossing clearly over the top. The path to the center of the basket directly over the corner and from the baseline starts 4.5' outside the lane....and that spot is just barely makeable on a lucky day.

So, the line from the corner (25' from the center of the court on the baseline) has plenty of room to clear the edge of the backboard. If it does go over the top, then there is no way it is going to be in line to go in....it's not going to be on a makable path. The path to the basket for any baseline shot (not near the baseline...direclty over it) beyond 10.5 feet from the center of the court is not over the backboard.

BillyMac Tue Sep 30, 2008 09:34pm

Who You Gonna Call ? Mythbusters !
 
The front, top, sides, and bottom of the backboard are all in play. The ball cannot pass over a rectangular backboard from either direction. The back of a backboard is out of bounds as well as the supporting structures.

Back In The Saddle Tue Sep 30, 2008 09:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker (Post 540326)
Brushing up on college rule citations for any particular reason, BITS???:D:D

Yep. I'm trying to become an insufferable know-it-all in two major rules sets :D

CoachP Wed Oct 01, 2008 06:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 540352)
Not possible....geometry

hmmm...now I'm gonna have to run to school tonight and take my ball and go stand in the corner.

SamIAm Wed Oct 01, 2008 08:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 540285)
Side to side, perhaps. If it literally passes over the top of the board in a straight line parallel to the back board, this would be a violation.

If it's going diagonally, it's still moving from the front of the board to the back of the board (or from back to front). The point is that the ball has to be, at one point, physically in the partial plane directly above the glass for it to be a violation. Going between the support structures does not qualify.

We agree.

Camron Rust Wed Oct 01, 2008 01:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoachP (Post 540405)
hmmm...now I'm gonna have to run to school tonight and take my ball and go stand in the corner.

I've refined my analysis and have created a diagram (to scale)...


http://cbrust.smugmug.com/photos/384524600_c4zTf-XL.png


Note three areas indicated by red, blue and green markings.
  1. Below the red line, it is not possible for the ball to go into the basket without going over the backboard. Think of the red line as the path of the center of the ball. If the center of the ball is above that line, it can't go in....it will bounce out. If the center of the ball is below that line, it must go over the board (and may still miss).
  2. If the entire ball is above the blue, solid line, the ball has a clear path into the basket without any part of the ball going above any part of the backboard.
  3. Above the green, solid line, the ball has a clear path to the entire basket without any part of the ball going above any part of the backboard.
Not diagramed, but fairly obvious. From the exact corner, there is a path to "most" of the basket that doesn't go above any part of the backboard.

So, a baseline shot (directly over the baseline) can't be legally made from less than 9' from the center of the backboard (3' outside the lane). For the next few feet, the shot can be legally made but some part of the ball will cross over at least part of the backboard. At about 13', there begins to be an entirely clean path directly into the basket. At 25', only the back couple inches of the basket is shielded by the backboard.

Of course, the margin of error is very small near or inside the blue line, but it is possible.

BillyMac Wed Oct 01, 2008 06:38pm

I Used My Slide Rule to Check Your Answer. Nice Job ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 540504)
I've refined my analysis and have created a diagram (to scale)...

http://cbrust.smugmug.com/photos/384524600_c4zTf-XL.png

Note three areas indicated by red, blue and green markings.
  1. Below the red line, it is not possible for the ball to go into the basket without going over the backboard. Think of the red line as the path of the center of the ball. If the center of the ball is above that line, it can't go in....it will bounce out. If the center of the ball is below that line, it must go over the board (and may still miss).
  2. If the entire ball is above the blue, solid line, the ball has a clear path into the basket without any part of the ball going above any part of the backboard.
  3. Above the green, solid line, the ball has a clear path to the entire basket without any part of the ball going above any part of the backboard.
Not diagrammed, but fairly obvious. From the exact corner, there is a path to "most" of the basket that doesn't go above any part of the backboard.

So, a baseline shot (directly over the baseline) can't be legally made from less than 9' from the center of the backboard (3' outside the lane). For the next few feet, the shot can be legally made but some part of the ball will cross over at least part of the backboard. At about 13', there begins to be an entirely clean path directly into the basket. At 25', only the back couple inches of the basket is shielded by the backboard. Of course, the margin of error is very small near or inside the blue line, but it is possible.

Wow. Thanks for the effort. Confucius supposedly said, "One picture is worth a thousand words". If he said it, he was right. Now I understand what you mean.

rainmaker Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:53pm

Sheez, Camron, you have way, way too much time on your hands!!

CoachP Thu Oct 02, 2008 08:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker (Post 540657)
Sheez, Camron, you have way, way too much time on your hands!!

I agree with Jullie or is it Juulie??.....but... you da man!! Nice drawing.

grunewar Thu Oct 02, 2008 08:29am

Yikes, heck of drawing is right!

I won't take out my rule book and shove it in a coaches face, ever.....but can you see waving off a basket stating it came over the backboard and when the coach calls a TO to "discuss", you reach into your back pocket and pull out CAMRON's art and say, "OK coach, let's review." :p

sseltser Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 540504)
Below the red line, it is not possible for the ball to go into the basket without going over the backboard. Think of the red line as the path of the center of the ball. If the center of the ball is above that line, it can't go in....it will bounce out. If the center of the ball is below that line, it must go over the board (and may still miss).

Camron

This is a sweet picture and pretty accurate for our purposes, but there is a slight error that I think you might want to think about.

Consider the area that is inside the ring, but to the "upper left" of the red line. Technically speaking, if the center of the ball happens to drop (straight down or nearly straight down) anywhere inside that area then the ball will bounce toward the center of the basket and have a chance to go in.

Therefore, to get the actual solution for the red line would require this (and I'm not proposing to do this because I've already taken Calc 1 and 2 and don't feel like repeating it):

- The red line would have to be tangent to the curve that is represented by the ring. Therefore, we need en equation of the half circle that is the "upper half" of the ring.
- We probably need to get a function of its derivative.
- Finally we need to find a line that has these three characteristics:
a)passes through the outside point of the backboard (as in the drawing)
b)passes through a point on the ring ( (x,f(x)) where f is the curve of the ring)
C)has the same slope as the instantaneous slope of the curve of the ring that it passes through.



Now that I've done that kind of work for the first time since my sophomore year, if anybody wants to actually figure it out (and find out that the real answer is like 8.6') then they have more free time on their hands than I do.

CoachP Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by sseltser (Post 540716)
Camron

This is a sweet picture and pretty accurate for our purposes, but there is a slight error that I think you might want to think about.

Consider the area that is inside the ring, but to the "upper left" of the red line. Technically speaking, if the center of the ball happens to drop (straight down or nearly straight down) anywhere inside that area then the ball will bounce toward the center of the basket and have a chance to go in.

Therefore, to get the actual solution for the red line would require this (and I'm not proposing to do this because I've already taken Calc 1 and 2 and don't feel like repeating it):

- The red line would have to be tangent to the curve that is represented by the ring. Therefore, we need en equation of the half circle that is the "upper half" of the ring.
- We probably need to get a function of its derivative.
- Finally we need to find a line that has these three characteristics:
a)passes through the outside point of the backboard (as in the drawing)
b)passes through a point on the ring ( (x,f(x)) where f is the curve of the ring)
C)has the same slope as the instantaneous slope of the curve of the ring that it passes through.



Now that I've done that kind of work for the first time since my sophomore year, if anybody wants to actually figure it out (and find out that the real answer is like 8.6') then they have more free time on their hands than I do.

Holy cosine batman!! Juulie and I were wrong. YOU have too much time on your hands.:D

Camron Rust Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by sseltser (Post 540716)
Camron

This is a sweet picture and pretty accurate for our purposes, but there is a slight error that I think you might want to think about.

Consider the area that is inside the ring, but to the "upper left" of the red line. Technically speaking, if the center of the ball happens to drop (straight down or nearly straight down) anywhere inside that area then the ball will bounce toward the center of the basket and have a chance to go in.

Therefore, to get the actual solution for the red line would require this (and I'm not proposing to do this because I've already taken Calc 1 and 2 and don't feel like repeating it):

- The red line would have to be tangent to the curve that is represented by the ring. Therefore, we need en equation of the half circle that is the "upper half" of the ring.
- We probably need to get a function of its derivative.
- Finally we need to find a line that has these three characteristics:
a)passes through the outside point of the backboard (as in the drawing)
b)passes through a point on the ring ( (x,f(x)) where f is the curve of the ring)
C)has the same slope as the instantaneous slope of the curve of the ring that it passes through.



Now that I've done that kind of work for the first time since my sophomore year, if anybody wants to actually figure it out (and find out that the real answer is like 8.6') then they have more free time on their hands than I do.

Can't disagree with your analysis....but I don't think we really need to worry about it since the ball needs to be coming straight down...something it can't realisticly do unless thrown from a position straight below that point. Any momentum it has from a real shot will negate the effect of your point....even if a shot just clears the mimimum legal (red) line, the ball will skim across the front of the rim and bounce out.

Camron Rust Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainmaker (Post 540657)
Sheez, Camron, you have way, way too much time on your hands!!

It really didn't take that long....maybe 10 minutes using Visio for the diagram...and a few more minutes for the math.

btaylor64 Thu Oct 02, 2008 05:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch1town (Post 540243)
I stand corrected. Had to go back & re-read the OP. This line got me: "passing directly behind the backboard".

Reading IS fundamental!

If it reads as you stated that would mean it would be illegal for the ball to go through the supports. Does it really say that?

BillyMac Thu Oct 02, 2008 08:04pm

God, I Hope Not ...
 
Will any of this be on the test?

Adam Thu Oct 02, 2008 08:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by btaylor64 (Post 540859)
If it reads as you stated that would mean it would be illegal for the ball to go through the supports. Does it really say that?

The OP said that, not the rule.

mutantducky Mon Dec 15, 2008 04:22am

ouch this thread hurt my brain.
So to clarify because some things are getting jumbled

1.from baseline pass(out of bounds) illegal- pass goes over the backboard
For example after a made basket player is running the baseline and is underneath the backboard and throws a pass over the backboard that does not touch anything.
2.illegal- airball shot from in front or the side that goes over the backboard. Does play stop once it goes over?
3.illegal- shot hits the rim and goes over
4. illegal- shot from behind the backboard goes over and into the rim
5. Not 100% sure on this one- pass goes from the side between basketball supports without hitting anything.

Scrapper1 Mon Dec 15, 2008 09:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mutantducky (Post 558223)
So to clarify because some things are getting jumbled

Here's the unjumbled version: it's a violation for any part of the ball to pass over any part of a rectangular backboard at any time.

Pass, shot, throw-in, front-to-back, back-to-front, side-to-side, whatever!! Doesn't matter. If the ball passes over the rectangular backboard, it's a violation.

AND, it's not a violation to pass BEHIND the backboard.

Hope that helps.

IREFU2 Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MajorCord (Post 540186)
Player A is falling out of bounds under his own basket. He throws the ball behind his back in an effort to save the ball. In doing so, the ball goes from one side of the lane to the other, passing directly behind the backboard, and somehow comes down on the other side of the lane without hitting any supports where it is caught by a teammate. Officials had a "no call". A D-1 official observing said that the play should have been whistled. He says that the ball cannot pass directly behind the backboard. What say you guys and gals?

I got nuttin!

bob jenkins Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:50am

Pleazse note that this thread is more than two months old and has been answered correctly. Let it die.


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