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Pass Goes Behind the Backboard, Through the Supports
Player A is falling out of bounds under his own basket. He throws the ball behind his back in an effort to save the ball. In doing so, the ball goes from one side of the lane to the other, passing directly behind the backboard, and somehow comes down on the other side of the lane without hitting any supports where it is caught by a teammate. Officials had a "no call". A D-1 official observing said that the play should have been whistled. He says that the ball cannot pass directly behind the backboard. What say you guys and gals?
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Being on top of his rules is one of the reasons he is a D1 official.
NOTE: If the backboard is fan shaped the ball may pass over the backboard without violation. |
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:confused: |
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Nothing illegal here, nothing to see, folks. Play on. |
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I actually had this happen to me during a game. I no called it, and then some official who was in the stands cornered me after the game and blasted me for no calling it. I asked him what rule he was specifically referring to, and he was really vague about it. Just kept on repeating it was in the rule book and I needed to go look.
Next time I saw him was at a DII college game getting his a** chewed out by his supervisor for blowing some calls. |
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so... in college is it legal or illegal? Like someone said earlier, this is illegal in the pro game, so I don't want to blow it in a college game, so what is correct?
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There is a rule regarding passing the ball over the supports or over the backboard. However, I believe (without looking this up) that this only applies to a throw-in pass. So if you're on the baseline and you pass it over the backboard/supports to the other side of the court, then you have a violation........I think :)
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The only time a throwin matters on this is if the ball passes through the basket. |
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I stand corrected. Had to go back & re-read the OP. This line got me: "passing directly behind the backboard".
Reading IS fundamental! |
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The NCAA rule and the FED rule are the same on this issue. |
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Just looked up the NCAA rule - it reads "over the backboard from any direction". |
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My opinion... Its a matter of likelihood in combination with the original reason for the rule. The rule came about when Wilt Chamberlain's team would lob a baseline throw-in over the board for him to slam in. If I'm not mistaken, the NBA and most, if not all of D1, had converted to rectangular backboards by his time. It was a completely indefensible play...so they made it illegal for the ball to cross over the top of the board. There is rarely a "normal" play where the ball also goes over a rectangular board. As for fan shaped boards...they're much smaller and it is much more likely for a ball to go over the top in the course of normal play. Not wanting to stop the game unnecessarily and knowing that fan boards were used in places not likley to be affected by Chamberlain-like players, there was no need to illegalize it for fan shaped boards. |
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If it's going diagonally, it's still moving from the front of the board to the back of the board (or from back to front). The point is that the ball has to be, at one point, physically in the partial plane directly above the glass for it to be a violation. Going between the support structures does not qualify. |
Thanks, Camron. That is the first reasonable explanation of this I've ever heard.
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For those whose books are not readily at hand...
NFHS 7-1-2: ART. 2 . . . The ball is out of bounds: b. When it passes over a rectangular backboard. NCAA 7-1-3: Art. 3. The ball shall be out of bounds when any part of the ball passes over the backboard from any direction. Had never really thought about it before, but I suppose a pass from one side of the key to the other, that passed over a rectangular backboard the long way, would also be illegal. Question for the brain trust...How much of the ball must pass over the backboard? If only a portion of the ball passes over the corner of the backboard, is that illegal? Must it be the entire ball? |
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I think you have to go back to the intent of this rule. The intent was not to disallow a shot from deep in the corner. The intent was to prevent the indefensible plays, as Camron noted.
To me, this is a clear example of when the spirit and intent should overrule what would be a violation by strict interpretation of the written rule. Two, I've seen balls shot from the corner go in that did not go over the glass. I know it didn't because they grazed the side of the glass on the way by. |
I went and re-read the rule and then asked myself why it was in place. The best thing I can come up with is that it puts the defense at a disadvantage to steal, tip, etc. the pass when you're behind the board and pass it over the top to someone on the other side. That said, the defense has the exact same opportunity to block the shot in the corner that they have anywhere else on the floor so it shouldn't matter in that instance. Just my $0.02
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The rule is widely (if not accurately) known. So there's a reasonable chance that on any ball that comes close to passing over the backboard, a coach is going to ask for a call. |
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On anything EXCEPT the George Mikan play, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the offense. So, in all likelihood, the entire ball will have to pass over the backboard to be a violation. (especially since we are at an angle to the backboard, and far enough away for depth perception to be an issue) On the George Mikan play (not that I ever expect to see it), I might be more strict. |
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I've blown this call once, and nothing was said by the "offended" coach. Of course, I believe that was a sophomore game, and those coaches weren't particularly chippy anyway.
You're right, though; obviously the line is somewhere between the two plays. Personally, I put the line a lot closer to the Chamberlain/Mikan play than the shot in the corner. Legitimate shots can be defended normally. To put it into practice, perhaps I lean towards thinking the entire ball has to be over the back board to qualify. |
I'm happy to go with the entire ball. That makes my life easier, it's relatively easy to judge, and is probably closer to the intent of the rule than any other option.
It doesn't sound like anybody knows of any official interp on this. Not even after the UCLA game last year? |
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Not possible....geometry (from an post by me in March regarding a shot that went over the top) Front tip of the rim is 24" from the backboard. Backboard is 6ft wide and 4ft from the baseline, lane is 12ft wide. The point on the baseline that leads over the corner to the very front tip of the rim is 3' outside the lane...and that is just to the front tip....an unmakeable point without crossing clearly over the top. The path to the center of the basket directly over the corner and from the baseline starts 4.5' outside the lane....and that spot is just barely makeable on a lucky day.So, the line from the corner (25' from the center of the court on the baseline) has plenty of room to clear the edge of the backboard. If it does go over the top, then there is no way it is going to be in line to go in....it's not going to be on a makable path. The path to the basket for any baseline shot (not near the baseline...direclty over it) beyond 10.5 feet from the center of the court is not over the backboard. |
Who You Gonna Call ? Mythbusters !
The front, top, sides, and bottom of the backboard are all in play. The ball cannot pass over a rectangular backboard from either direction. The back of a backboard is out of bounds as well as the supporting structures.
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http://cbrust.smugmug.com/photos/384524600_c4zTf-XL.png Note three areas indicated by red, blue and green markings.
So, a baseline shot (directly over the baseline) can't be legally made from less than 9' from the center of the backboard (3' outside the lane). For the next few feet, the shot can be legally made but some part of the ball will cross over at least part of the backboard. At about 13', there begins to be an entirely clean path directly into the basket. At 25', only the back couple inches of the basket is shielded by the backboard. Of course, the margin of error is very small near or inside the blue line, but it is possible. |
I Used My Slide Rule to Check Your Answer. Nice Job ...
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Sheez, Camron, you have way, way too much time on your hands!!
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Yikes, heck of drawing is right!
I won't take out my rule book and shove it in a coaches face, ever.....but can you see waving off a basket stating it came over the backboard and when the coach calls a TO to "discuss", you reach into your back pocket and pull out CAMRON's art and say, "OK coach, let's review." :p |
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This is a sweet picture and pretty accurate for our purposes, but there is a slight error that I think you might want to think about. Consider the area that is inside the ring, but to the "upper left" of the red line. Technically speaking, if the center of the ball happens to drop (straight down or nearly straight down) anywhere inside that area then the ball will bounce toward the center of the basket and have a chance to go in. Therefore, to get the actual solution for the red line would require this (and I'm not proposing to do this because I've already taken Calc 1 and 2 and don't feel like repeating it): - The red line would have to be tangent to the curve that is represented by the ring. Therefore, we need en equation of the half circle that is the "upper half" of the ring. - We probably need to get a function of its derivative. - Finally we need to find a line that has these three characteristics: a)passes through the outside point of the backboard (as in the drawing) b)passes through a point on the ring ( (x,f(x)) where f is the curve of the ring) C)has the same slope as the instantaneous slope of the curve of the ring that it passes through. Now that I've done that kind of work for the first time since my sophomore year, if anybody wants to actually figure it out (and find out that the real answer is like 8.6') then they have more free time on their hands than I do. |
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God, I Hope Not ...
Will any of this be on the test?
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ouch this thread hurt my brain.
So to clarify because some things are getting jumbled 1.from baseline pass(out of bounds) illegal- pass goes over the backboard For example after a made basket player is running the baseline and is underneath the backboard and throws a pass over the backboard that does not touch anything. 2.illegal- airball shot from in front or the side that goes over the backboard. Does play stop once it goes over? 3.illegal- shot hits the rim and goes over 4. illegal- shot from behind the backboard goes over and into the rim 5. Not 100% sure on this one- pass goes from the side between basketball supports without hitting anything. |
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Pass, shot, throw-in, front-to-back, back-to-front, side-to-side, whatever!! Doesn't matter. If the ball passes over the rectangular backboard, it's a violation. AND, it's not a violation to pass BEHIND the backboard. Hope that helps. |
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Pleazse note that this thread is more than two months old and has been answered correctly. Let it die.
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