A1 shoots a basket. Ball goes in. A2 is fouled simultaneously. (1) Team B is not in the bonus (2)Team B is in the double bonus (3) Does A2 automatically shoot the shots?

Semper Fi

If A1 shoots and A2 is fouled, the foul on A2 is enforced just like any other foul -- shoot if in the bonus; take the ball OOB if not.

Nothing in basketball (except perhaps lane violations during free throws and double fouls) happens simultaneously. A2 is always fouled just a split second before or after A1 gets fouled. Just ask any experienced official. This is covered under the same rule that states there is no such thing as a multiple foul.

Or - in my games - overtime. ;)

Once again, the NBA interp is different. In the NBA, a team cannot be awarded possession of the ball immediately after it has just scored. So in the NBA, you couldn't score the basket and then just give A the ball back.

If team A is not in the bonus, then you score the basket and give A2 one shot (to complete the "three-point play"). If team A is in the bonus, then you score the basket and give A2 a two-to-make-one opportunity.

I'm sorry for all the NBA-type posts recently. But I've been studying up and now I see NF/NBA differences instead of NF/NCAA differences in every post. :confused:

Chuck

Chuck, I too have been studying the NBA Rules, Manual and Casebooks. They have a lot of differences from NFHS and NCAA that just make sense when applied to a man's game. It's good now that we can discuss some of the differences between the three sets. My question is in game 3 of the Portland/LA series when Horry made the 3-pointer from the corner in front of the Blazers bench to win the game, Stoudamire jumped out at him to distract him, what if Horry had missed the shot and Stoudamire had made contact with him, whether it be slight or not which caused the missed shot. I had heard, can't confirm or quote the rule, that in the WNBA they would score the basket and penalize with a T. How would you handle this in NF or NCAA. Can you call an intentional on bench personnel in order to give 3 shots otherwise a T only gives 2 shots. What if the 3 was attempted at the buzzer to tie or win the game, in NF or NCAA how would this be handled? I can't find this anywhere in the NBA Rules either. Of course, you would want to give 3 shots to the player but how would justify by rule in all 3 sets. What other rules differences between NF/NCAA and NBA have you found? I have a bunch which we can discuss.

Sorry, after posting my reply I realized that I addressed it to Chuck. This quetion goes out to everybody.

Okay, sorry for the mistyping, but I was fresh out the field when I typed this. So my question was intended to read: If A1 shoots the ball and the shot goes in, A2 is fouled at the same time by B1, what is the procedure (1) if team A is in the bonus (2) if they are not in the bonus (3) what if the shots does not go in?
Please reference your answers to the NCAA and NFHS.

Semper Fi

rburn,

Bob Jenkins' answer is exactly correct for NF.

I think it's exactly correct for NCAA, as well. ;)

heyref,

Here's the play you're talking about. It's on page 57 of the NBA Questions & Answers (casebook). It's play number 284:

It's spelled out pretty well. Score the goal and give a free throw. Impressed I found it? LOL, I've been digging for 2 days to find it :)

I honestly am not sure how this would be handled in NCAA/Fed. I don't think that there's any rule or case play that even comes close to the situation we're talking about. I'll have to go dig through my Fed book now under Rule 10. My guess is that you can only call a technical foul. (Although it's contact during a live ball. But how could you call a personal foul on a substitute?) Tough question! Hope the NBA answer will tide you over for now :)

Chuck

I think that this is one of the few cases when you would have to invoke R2-3.I think you have to have a flagrant T on the person who interfered,particulary because of the seriousness of the act.I think that any league would back that up,to stop it from happening again.I also think I'd count the basket if it went in.The only question in my mind is what to do if the basket didn't go-whether to award it or award 3 FT's like a normal foul.

Isn't there a rule in football that covers situations like this? A guy breaks away from the pack and there's nobody near him for 30 yards. Then somebody from the bench jumps on the field and tackles him. Can't the officials award the TD in that case? Maybe we should have a rule like that, for the 1-in-a-billion chance that it might happen so we can just award the basket.

Otherwise, in NCAA/Fed, I think the best we can do is to call the contact an intentional personal foul. That way the shooter gets 3 shots plus the ball back. Make it a flagrant intentional personal, so you can toss the offender. Only problem with that, is that the coach won't get an indirect for it.

Chuck

I'm somewhat weary of calling a personal foul on a bench player, although the intentional would be the best way to go about this (3 shots for a 3 point attempt).

I would probably pull a DeNucci :D and call two technical fouls on the bench player - one for entering the court without authorization; one for contact with a player. This way, you have 4 FTs for anyone on team A, B6 is ejected, B coach has 2 indirects toward his count.

Thanks for the replies. Chuck good research, your football example is one that was brought up by one of the guys around here. Jurassic, it looks like for NF/NCAA 2.3 is the way to go. Dexter, I like the 2T scenario, especially if the shooter is not a good free thrower a la Shaq, 4 to make 3 is better than just 3.

Mark,how about one for not remaining seated(R10-4-1g),one for entering the court(R10-4-2),and one for contact with the player.That way you can unload the coach too,and really have some fun!:D
Btw,I get tired of calling fouls sometimes,too.

A sub cannot commit a personal foul.
A personal foul is a player foul.

Yeah, Tony, I know. That's why originally I said that I thought you could only call the T. It would be nice, tho, if we had some wiggle room to give an intentional on this play. If you call an intentional T during a 3-point attempt, can you award 3 shots? In other words, make the penalty for the intentional T the same as for an intentional personal. Just a thought

Chuck

"If team A is not in the bonus, then you score the basket and give A2 one shot (to complete the "three-point play"). If team A is in the bonus, then you score the basket and give A2 a two-to-make-one opportunity."

Chuck,
In this situation, A2 would only get one shot-period.
Even if A was in the bonus, there can only be a maximum of three-points scored on this play.
Now,If the foul against A2 was a "flagrant," then A2 would get "two to make one."

But since Team A is in the bonus, then isn't A2 entitled to two shots? Since he's only allowed a maximum of 1 point after the made field goal, he can't make both, but wouldn't you give him the two-to-make-one opportunity? I'm missing something. . .

But since Team A is in the bonus, then isn't A2 entitled to two shots? Since he's only allowed a maximum of 1 point after the made field goal, he can't make both, but wouldn't you give him the two-to-make-one opportunity? I'm missing something. . .

I guess the way you look at is....
If a loose ball foul is committed by the defense on a
successfull free-throw,field goal, A2 is only ENTITLED to one shot, NOT 2. This is because of the maximum of three points on a
2 point play followed by a foul, and 4 if a successful three.
I don't know who decided this, but hey, who am I to guestion?
Flagrant fouls, elbow fouls carry their own penalty due to their nature, which I guess explains why the 2-to-make-1 applies in thoses cases.

Eli, if you're around and can provide more insight, feel free to chip in.

Ok, so any common (non flagrant, non unsportsmanlike) foul by the defense while the offense is in the act of shooting is a 1-shot foul. That makes a certain amount of sense. File that one away for later. . .

Thanks Drake.

Chuck you summed it up pretty correctly.
The only ones that would be different than what you described are the elbow foul, punching foul, fighting, and flagrant.
They each have their own penalty. Excluding those you would shoot just the one shot and play (treated as if you fouled the shooter but may be another player shooting the ball) the others would be handled differently.

No free throws for fighting fouls.:p