Moderators
 

Can we possibly get back to basketball and drop all the lame jokes, pictures, the crap that should be saved for IM and email? It's absolutely ridiculous. You can't start a basketball thread without it turning into a bunch of stupid jokes and crap. Half the threads you read are getting hijacked and sidetracked? How about deleting the stupidtiy that's taking basketball threads off topic?

JRut ask where all the cowboys have gone. This is one cowboy that's just sick and tired of all the stupid stuff. This was once a great place to talk basketball.

Not anymore.

And it will be again. I agree that this off-season has generated more than the "normal" amount of off-topic conversation. But I honestly think that once the season rolls around, we'll get back on track. We always do.

Seems like we have this conversation every summer, and then every winter, we forget that we had it.

Nah...even now, when a topic is posted that's basketball related, it goes off topic. It doesn't matter what season it is, some posters are going to drag it off in the wrong direction. Post all the OT stuff you like but the thread hijacking has just gotten way out of hand. There's no reaon for that. It's gotten real old for me. Call me in November if it's gotten any better.

That unfortunately is the nature of message boards. It does get frustrating at times, especially if you've posed a situation or specific question and it gets hijacked. Off season does tend to wander and many haven't posted or been on here much but are back now. Possibly different sections within the basketball forum might be the answer. Rules interps, situations, 'stories', Jokes. Just a thought.

That said, this is still a great site.

More realistic sections:

• Rules interps that got off topic
• Situations that got off topic
• Stories that got off topic
• Jokes that got off topic

From the poster that turned a rule book discussion into a binary joke discussion? :(

I am starting to agree. A simple post is turning into a joke feast. I do not see anything wrong with a little joke, but the entire thread gets off topic. This is getting a little out of hand. I think there is more attention paid to people that get into it, then threads that get seriously off topic. I will be the first one to admit I like many of the jokes, but a good thing is being taken a little far sometimes. And when you are looking to read good information, you have to weed through those posts to see the information.

Peace

I agree, but my hope is that with real basketball in a couple months (or sooner), things will get back to on-topic conversations. It always has in the past.

The other thing is, if the off-topic stuff weren't here, there would be almost nothing at all here. So it's not like we're drowning out people who want to be heard. It'd be more like the NFHS board with very little activity, for better or for worse. I go there once every two weeks or so and read 5 new posts. But hey, all of it's on-topic.

Actually I disagree with the NFHS Board comparison. The football and baseball sides prosper without all the off-topic issues and those sites are much more popular than their Basketball counterpart. Not to say that people do not make an occasional joke, but it is not as constant. And if you look at the Football side on this site, there is a lot of football only discussion. Now the conversations might be heated at times or contentious, but there is mostly talk about the sport and issues dealing with the sport from an officiating side. On this site we have more joke makers and that is fine with me. I just think we take it a little far sometimes. There used to be a time when someone would make a joke and we would laugh and get back to the topic. Now people ask one question and the question never gets answered but where are 20 different jokes. Of course that is a testament to the good people here. I just think we are driving away many of the good people without realizing it. JMHO.

Peace

That's fine, but just a couple of points.

1) I didn't mean to refer to the non-basketball portions of the NFHS site. I have never even looked at any of the other forums there. I have only ever checked the basketball forum. And what I said about that particular forum is true. There's very very little activity, except in very rare cases like moving underneath an airborne player. Even during the season.

2) My guess (and it is only that, just a guess) is that the basketball forum is not as popular as the football and baseball forums on the NFHS precisely because people prefer to come here instead for their basketball conversations, both on- and off-topic.

I understand, but I do read the other forums and I work those sports. There is much more conversation in those sports than there ever seems to be during the basketball season on the basketball side of that forum. People were talking a stupid offense on the football side during the spring and summer and football season was weeks away. Basketball on that forum hardly ever gets that kind of conversation during the regular season.

Actually the people that attend this site and attend the NFHS site are not necessarily the same people. The regulars on the football or baseball side (the two most popular sites over there) are not the same people that contribute over here. Why is that? I really do not know. We also get a lot of stragglers that come here that never seem to come to the NFHS site. Maybe it is because this site is dedicated to officiating and this site shows up on more the search engines.

Peace

Build A Better Moustrap ...
 

Agree, and agree again.

When we all start attending our local meetings in a few weeks I believe that things will start to both pick up, and get a lot more serious, at least that is my hope.

Also, the NFHS basketball forum is a "dead zone", like that Verizon commercial on television. At one point there was not a single post from mid-August to early-September. I check it every day, hoping to find some stimulating question, answer, comment, opinion, etc. When there are posts, they're usually quite good, but there are a lot less posts, a lot, lot less posts, on the NFHS basketball forum, than on this Forum.

Jokes, name calling, put downs, images (I'm trying to limit my self to infrequent, on topic, images from now on), inside jokes, hijacked threads, sidetracked threads, no closure to some threads, etc. make checking out this site a longer task than I would like, and I check it every day. It would be nice if this Forum only had questions, answers, comments, opinions, etc., on rules, interpretations, and mechanics, but, I can't find a better basketball officiating forum anywhere on the internet. If you know of one, could you please share it with us?

Maybe the moderators could be a little tougher in terms of censoring our posts, but I'm sure that if they were, some Forum members would complain.

I'm not saying I'm not guilty. Just sayin' that most posts here go off topic sooner or later. It seems inevitable considering the cast of characters that gather here. I, for one, am not bothered by it. To me, it seems pointless wishing this place was something other than what it is. shrug.

Maybe you have it backwards; all the off topic stuff might be the reason there aren't many basketball discussions.

If past off-seasons are an indicator, and I think they are, Scrappy is correct. There has been an increase in off-topic banter this summer, but no decrease in on-topic discussions. Off season just leaves a dirth of posting, and it always picks up about the time meetings start (and fall ball in Michigan).

The OT stuff is part of the reason I come to this site. The other part is the cast of characters. If I just want dry rules and scenario discussion, I'd go to the Fed site. Keep up the good work boys.

The Great Lakes State ...
 

Thank God for fall basketball in Michigan.

Are there any other states that plays interscholastic basketball in a season other than winter?

You're welcome. :D

http://www.thehumorarchives.com/atta...uirrelball.jpg

It was easier giving up red meat.
 

How would you like to see some inane, irrelevant, idiotic, and annoying images? Let me know and I'll send you some by Private Message.

LDUB, that's certainly possible; but I honestly don't think so. JMHO, but there just isn't a lot of basketball to discuss between May and October.

I don't disagree, but...

Lame jokes have a place in a forum. They give a forum a sort of personality.
Users have greatly reduced the number of pictures they have posted.
Crap is nearly everywhere, but it's existence is totally dependent on how it smells to whomever smells it.

This forum needs the Cowboys. Without them the rustlers rustle, or the herds wander away.

I cannot, in good conscience, delete every post that seems silly to me, because I do not want to impose, expose, dispose or transpose a specific character on an open forum.

For my old eyes, the line between facisim and negligence is very wide and kinda blurry.

I am still trying to figure out how is Michigan special anymore with fall basketball? :confused:

Peace

No Need To Thank Me ...
 

You're welcome. However, eventually I will get back to posting images, but they will be very infrequent, and will be on topic.

Thank you, BillyMac.
And post pictures too, will I. ;)

I have no problem with OT discussion, never have complained about it.

My complaint is with basketball threads that are being hijacked with OT crap. And that, there has been an increase in...a huge increase.

Which is exactly the problem.

Nah, don't hand me that crap when I've seen what it can be and once was. Posters and moderators makes a forum what it is

But evidently neither the posters nor the moderators have any control over anything that's posted here. :confused:

Not when they completely hijack a basketball thread.

Those are the ones that need the strongest moderation.

BktBallRef,
C'mon! Don't have control...? Everyone has some form of forum control. What may be lacking is self-control.

If you have a specific with a specific thread, please let me know and I will address it, just like I do when you tell me I screwed up a rule.
But it is not my intent to read every post.

Poster's have two options, self-censoring and attempting to influence others to self-censor. In order to self censor, the poster must believe going off topic is bad and mindless banter should be eschewed. Apparently that sentiment is not exactly universal. As for exerting influence, how is that going? ;)



I've been on other boards where the moderators (I believe you may know one of them?) do a great job of keeping everything on topic. I especially value the volleyball board as it has a much more active base of posters than here and is very informative.

It's also. rather. dull. And don't even get me started on the basketball <s>bored</s> board there. Even the dustups and cat fights are dull. I think that's why so many more of us hang out here. We like it here. And we kinda like it the way it is. Mostly.

I'm probably as guilty of this as anyone; probably a function of a variety of things in my personal life that make me cry out for attention.
Or, I'm just having fun.

Seriously, I'll back off a bit and display a bit more self-control. Mainly because I see your point with hijacking on-topic threads. I can see how it would get frustrating, especially to newer members.

Also because I'm changing jobs here next week and won't have the same amount of taxpayer-funded time to read the board.

Hmmmm, Now what were we talking about again?

[WARNING: Off-topic follow up question, which may result in thread being hijacked; moderators please stand by]

You still staying in CO? Just another job within the military? Or are you getting out? Enquiring minds want to know. ;)

I'll continue working on the same AF base, just in a different building working a different job. I'll be getting a fancier uniform for the next six months.

Sarcasm, mick, in response to BITS observation that "it seems pointless wishing this place was something other than what it is. Obviously, we all have self control. Unfortunately, we're not all using it.

Nor do I expect you to. But when I see a hijacked thread and see that a mod has posted in it... :rolleyes:

I'm not mod-bashing. I simply think it's out of hand and needs to be addressed.

BTW, I believe there is a General Discussion board on this site, isn't there? http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...mages/poke.gif

But I will take your advice and notify a mod tonight when I see another hijacked thread.

That happens to a lot of us.
That's another reason why I don't throw very large stones.

And while I know it's difficult to take seriously any thread Padgett starts, here's an example of a hijacked thread.

Jersey switch?

It starts at Post 8. :rolleyes:

YU.P., it was.

Yeah, but Padgett's question had been answered by that time. :)

Quit with the Yabutz, Snaqs. :cool:

Indeed, the question was answered, but when the *stuff* took over, additional discussion or clarification, if desireable, was stifled, particularly for an interested user, or a newer user that wished to know more.

Staying on a topic is certainly better for encouraging lighter users to join in and actively participate.

Agree, even as a veteran. When I see a bunch of pic's or a bunch of one-line posts I know the thread has gone OT and I don't bother reading through it for usable info.

Thank you, gentlemen. That was all I was trying to say. There are many others. I deleted two threads that I started that went down the same path, I was so frustrated by it. It is a slow time, so you try to start a topic that will allow some discussion to develop, only to have it turn to crap.

With that, http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...mages/rant.gif over!

Fair enough. While guilty, I actually agree with this and am making a concerted effort to show some freaking self control. Of course, I won't make a spectacle of my efforts. ;)

Well, if Snaqs can make an effort, I suppose I can too. ;)

I happen to think that Snaq's point is perfectly valid. In that particular thread, the question was, "Is there anything wrong with changing shirts, as long as all of the new shirts match?" Once you say no, what else is there to discuss? Notre Dame's green jerseys? How is that any better than a binary joke?

JMHO, but I just don't see it as such a big deal. (And not because I'm a prime participant. I'm not.) Once there's real basketball to talk about, we'll talk about it, with only minor sidetracks.

Take those topic to a new, properly labeled thread. When I open a thread under a specific topic that has a new post, I generally expect that new post to be about that topic. When it so often is not, it becomes quite irritating.

And why do you expect this? Sounds like a triumph of optimism over experience :D

I'm still thinkin' about it. http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...ages/think.gif

Yup. And it's also nobody's business except Brad Batt's. If he thinks it's a problem, he'll either take some action or give new direction to the mods. It sureashell isn't up to me...or anyone else that's posted in this particular thread...to tell <b>anybody</b> what they can or can't post.

Everybody gets an opinion. That doesn't mean that their opinion is gonna become law.

And personally, I ain't about to change my posting habits. If the mods don't like 'em, they can delete my posts...or me. Shrug.

I totally understand. I'm in, for now, but I'm hardly convinced. I suppose it's worth a shot to see what will happen. But if it turns into the NFHS bored, I'll be reverting with a vengeance ;)

May even post some pics.

You have read posts where some legitimately honest questions were asked by a younger/newer official and you have graciously sent them down the path of truth. These were possibly questions that, after achieving all your success, you would never think of asking (again).

The point of this thread is to attempt to keep an original subject [e.g., Changing basketball jerseys] open and welcoming, unmarred by such topics as the Notre Dame green jerseys or the biography of the author of the Notre Dame Fight Song.

This forum is top heavy with experienced and clever officials ready to offer advice and direction. All want to write something here or they would be elsewhere. But, because of the cleverness, we sometimes, inadvertently, type a knee-jerk response which deflects an original thread.
That makes it harder to jump in and for that "honest question" to be asked by new folks.

What the forum needs, as does officiating in general, is some newer/younger folks to ask and be answered. Let's make it easier for them.

On the flip side, keep in mind that the reason so many accomplished and knowledgeable officials continue to hang out here is not to continue to ask a steady stream of questions. Nor is it an eager desire to answer new people's questions (I'm not suggesting those questions aren't welcome, nor even the lifeblood of a discussion forum, just that nobody logs on each day thinking to him or herself, "Gee, I'll bet I can answer four or five questions before heading out to work.").

It's the community that draws these people here. It is, to a lesser or greater extent, the chance to "hang out" with other really good officials that we don't get in the "real world". We're all still learning, 'tis true. And we're all still learning from each other, and that's a great benefit of being here. But honestly, does any of us sign on with a single-minded determination to engage in another "study session" on the forum? Or do you come at least as much to see "what's happening" as well as talk basketball?

I wasn't being flip when I said earlier, "It is what it is." Any community is more or less the sum of it's members, but is not any one of them. It draws people because it is better to be a member than to not. But it is not and never will be exactly what any one of us wishes it were. It's always a compromise.

This entire discussion has been about what one member wants this place to be, and why can't we all just conform to his view of the world? With all due respect to Tony, and I do respect him a ton, why is he here complaining about why this board isn't conducted and moderated to his view of the world. He's got a board that he moderates to his standard. Why does he need another? There's a reason I spend 99% of my time here, and 1% there. I like this place 99% better. Apparently I'm not alone.

</rant>

Frankly, I think that's part of the problem. I think that a reasonable person (reasonable under my definition) would see that certain posts are deleted / edited and make an effort not to make those types of posts. Others seem to think that "I don't need to worry about what I do -- someone else will take care of it."

and, to be clear, I'm not singling out JR here -- there are more than one other poster who springs to the front of my mind when making this post.

I have recently (over the past couple of months or so) began to be more active in moderating the baseball board. that was due more to personal attacks than to OT posts. I could, if desired by most, be a more active moderator here. Certainly my natural inclination / preference would be to have fewer off-topic posts / threads, even if that might mean no new threads at all in a particular day. (There are plenty of other sites I can go to to read mostly stale jokes, for example)

Let's clear a couple of things up.

I'm not the only poster here who is of the opinion that the hijacking of threads is a problem. That's very obvious. I just happen to be the one that brought it up.

I don't have a board.I volunteered to moderate the NFHS board because they were gonna shut the damn thing down. For the NFHS to have to shut down their officials' discussion board because officials couldn't maintain civil discussion was ridiculous.

This hijacking of threads with stale jokes is not a problem on the NFHS board. And it's not because I delete it. It simply isn't posted there. Yes, it's a slower board but it's rare that a thread is hijacked. In fact, the very few issues I have there are from a poster who does the same thing on this site: post inane images that mean nothing to anyone. Interestingly enough, JRutledge and Jurassic Referee have voiced their opinions on the NFHS board that they don't care for those posts either.

So you can think that this is all about me but it's not. I've been here about as long as anyone and can tell you that it hasn't always been this way. I can go away but the problem will still exist.

This is really not about one person. There is something going on and it was not like this just a few years ago. I do think right or wrong there are many people that have decided not to come here because of the tone of many of the discussions. When you have to read through a lot of stuff just to get to a solid discussion in this forum it makes people stay away on some level. Now it has not made me go away, but it has changed what and who I read stuff from. And this is not just happening in the off-season. Basketball is a sport that many of us work most of the year and heavily during the summer. This summer seemed to be very slow in comparison. I would never want to suggest this all comes down to the OT posts. I think there are other reasons for that decline, but I think it plays a significant role.

Peace

Actually, its everyone's business. Each person should have the courtesy to recognize when their actions are unwelcome and should take the initiative to be a good citizen of the community. No one should feel they have the right to be an *** until someone tells them to stop.

It Gives Me A Warm, Fuzzy, Feeling Inside ...
 

You've put into words, and I might add, very elegantly, what I've been trying to accomplish this past week regarding images. I don't know why, but I feel better about my decision after reading this post. Thank you.

And who gets to determine whose actions are unwelcome and who a "good citizen of the community" is? You? God?

Sorry, but personally I can't be that presumptuous.

If the owners of this site want to turn it into a vanilla, rules discussions only, blah site like the NFHS site, so be it. No matter where I may post though, I know that I have to follow the site rules. If I don't want to follow the site rules, then I don't get to post. It's that simple. That's the choice given to each and every person that comes to this particular site. If the owners of this site want to change it, hey, that's their right. I can either stay or I can shuffle off into the fading sunset over my beloved Hackensack.

For all the people decrying the foolishness that they get on this particular forum, I have a question. Have you ever considered leaving the zoo and spending a few bucks to join the paid side of this site? After all, it's limited to rules, philosophies and mechanics discussions. Y'all should be in seventh heaven over there. No <i>beisbol</i>, no squirrels, etc. And if you do join, please let me know if you actually learn more over there than you can learn here(with all of our attendant nonsense).

A Little Help From My Friends ...
 

In my case, I determined that my actions were unwelcome, and that I was not a good citizen of the community, with some input from several Forum members, including some moderators. Over the past several weeks, the posts criticizing my image posting seemed to get more serious, and less good natured. I decided that I did not want to be viewed as an obnoxious Forum member, so I made my own decision to only post infrequent, on topic images. I thank those that advised me to tone it down.

Also, with the exception of a personal post on the Feast of the Exaltation of the Cross, which I took a chance on getting posted, trying to tie it in to what I call the "Sports Bible Verse" (see signature below), expecting it to be deleted by the moderators, and pleased that the moderators didn't delete until the end of that Sunday, getting me one Personal Message thanking me for the post; I don't recall having any other of my posts deleted by our moderators. They seem to show a lot of restraint, and patience. I think that they do a thankless, but great, job.

I agree with you that it would be unfortunate if this Forum were turned into the NFHS forum. This Forum is much, much, busier, thus providing a lot more information on rules, interpretations, and mechanics, and at the same time, it offers a little bit of fun. Again, I repeat, if anyone knows of a better internet forum on basketball rules, interpretations, and mechanics, that is, better than the Official Forum, please share it with the rest of us.

For your posts...you do. For my posts I do.

It is each persons responsibility to be a good citizen. Each must have the consideration and courtesy to analyze their own posts (sometimes with hints) and have the maturity to make adjustments on their own.
That's the problem. It shouldn't come to a point where the owners have to step in to make and enforce rules. In a successful community, the members each do their part to make it better, not be as rogue as they can until the law tells them otherwise.
No, I don't plan on leaving...I'd rather try to make this place a better place. I have no confidence in the paid side being worth the $$$.

If all the people that insist on a higher quality place were to leave, this place would certainly degrade into r.s.b.c or McGriffs. The Comraderie is certainly welcome and even some good humor and some off-topic content is appreciated. It is only excesses that I "decry" along with attitudes that run off potentially contributing lurkers. And it is truly excess when those sorts of posts far outnumber on-topic items (as has been the case lately).

Okay, fair enough. There are several here who don't care for the level of thread hijacking. Yet they're still here, so it can't be all that bad. BTW, I used to feel the same way, to be honest. I got over it. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. Heck, I don't even mind the images, as long as they're family friendly.

Kudos to you. Seriously. It's got to be a thankless job. I do value certain parts of the NFHS board. Not the basketball bored, mind you. But certain parts.

Hmmm, so basically, people who really just want an all basketball or nothing kind of place...have one? But yet they choose to be here instead, for the most part? I'm sure I must be missing something here.

I'm not trying to be an *** here, I've already agreed to exercise more self restraint. At least on a trial basis. But...

This board is the best of its kind for basketball. It isn't what it once was, that's true (I've been here quite a while now too). A year from now, it won't be what it currently is. Change is the only constant. Yet still, somehow, we have a larger, more vibrant user community here than any other board like it. Including the NFHS board, which seems tailor made for those who would prefer no posts to off topic banter. So, it can't be all that bad.

Here's something you and I both agree on. The "tone of many of the discussions" discourages people from coming here, and those that are here from posting sometimes. I am not talking about the OT posts. I, personally, have taken a page from your book. I can ignore them, choose not to read them, pretend they don't even exist. There's not even anybody on my ignore list.

The tone I'm talking about has to do with the completely uncivil way discusions are conducted as regards officiating philosophies, college mechanics, written rules v. the way things are actually called, etc. It seems that raising such a topic is like waving red flags in front of some of the old bulls on this board. No discussion can take place because those holding "unapproved" opinions are shouted down, drowned out, and driven from the herd. But it's all done in the righteous name of protecting all them newbie lurkers (who must be protected, even though they contribute little if anything to the community) from getting confused. It's true. It's true.

To me, that's a helluva lot more damaging that off-topic posts.

But oddly enough, nobody's talking about that elephant in the room.

That's not too off topic, is it? :eek:

Have you noticed that no one has tried to hijack this thread - yet. ;)

Nope. Not even 1 person. Or 01. Or 0x1. Oh, wait...

Bad, bad, BITS. :D

HaHa Mark! Because THIS is a good place for it. And I for one am enjoying the differring points of view.

C'mon....

Okay, okay. But you have to admit, the topic could use a bit of lightening up. Think of Mark and I as the comic relief ;)

Honestly, I was thinking the same thing. You'd think we were negotiating a Middle East peace plan or something.

It's going to get better. When there's more basketball stuff to talk about, we'll talk more basketball and less jokes. As I said, we have this conversation every summer, and then we forget that we had it.

Forget that we had what? :confused:

Rut:

Some MS leagues here in that mitten-shaped state still play girls basketball in the fall. The other day, we played our in-district rival and it felt liek a CYO reunion as 3 or 4 of the other team's players were ones I saw the previous winter playing 6th grade CYO basketball for opposing teams.

Prior to our league's merger with the adjoining league, there was a brainstorm to swap all our fall MS sports with spring sports. But I don't think that will be happening now.

Mark Padgett has NOT Left The Building, Thank You Lord ...
 

Welcome back. I thought this thread may have scared you a little bit. I kept thinking, "How this will effect Mark Padgett's posts?". I guess, from this post, not at all. How about an image for old time's sake?

Madame Speaker, I Propose A Differing Point Of View ...
 

No wonder. You live in Northern Virginia, probably a stone's throw from Washington, D.C. You're used to differing points of view. You probably have to close your windows in the summer, to get some peace, and quiet, from those differing points of view.

Oh, so now you're knocking where I live?
 

Yes, I do live near the seat(s) of all power and knowledge (such that it is) and am not opposed to listening to other points of view (as long as they are well thought out and not written above my pay grade - I did go to public/state schools ya know). ;)

Recovering image postaholic seeks enabler to provide a vicarious fix.

Be strong, BillyMac. You can get through this. Perhaps if you printed a random image and taped it to your upper arm, it might work as a kind of a "patch" for posting images. ;)

Perhaps if he just stopped posting the "imagine an image here" sentence at the end of every one of his posts, it would help.

Hint. Hint.

'Nuff