I recently met a new official and she is eager to improve and be the best official that she can possibly become. The subject of camps came up and she mentioned to me that a couple of people (one who is not even a referee) told her that she should wait to start attending camps. This disturbs me because I am a "Camp Guy" and since attending camps I have learned so much that I am quick to suggest to other officials who have never attended camps to give them a try. Now, I need some feedback from other ofiicals into the pro's and con's for new officials attending camps. This person also reads the post on this website and will read everyone's feedback. So please don't pull any punches!

The only reason to NOT attend camps is if you don't want to improve, or want to improve at a snail pace... tell this person to get to camp...the feedback from the on-court time is important, but the input off the court - just sitting around and bs'ing with the evaluators and listening to their experiences and philosophies - that's where the real learning takes place!!

I went to my first camp (a instructional camp run by a D1 assignor who hired out of the camp) after my second year. My only regret about it is that I didn't go a year sooner. If you want to be the best you have to learn from the best. Go to the highest level instrucitonal camp you can get. One like my first is ideal. The instructors loved new guys because they had so much to learn and they are all eager to learn it.

You just gotta go.

When I first started officiating, I thought I knew what I was doing. Then I went to camp. WOW! Talk about a wake-up call! I found out that I didn't know anything. It would certainly be better if a new official could go to a camp designed for new or inexperienced officials, but it's not a necessity. Camp directors and counselors understand that new officials have a lot to learn but I think that, overall, they will be very supportive.

That's my $ .02.

ditto BktBallRef, I worked for three years. I was a great official. Then I went to my 1st camp. :( I quickly found out how bad i was at officiating. I found out I didn't have a clue. This was a good thing b/c i wanted to learn. I have been going to camps ever since. I attend 5 to 8 camps every summer. Its a blast. :) I may not be great , but i hold my own, all b/c of camps.

Reason.
 

I think that it depends greatly on why you go to camps. If you go to learn you should always go to them. If you go to get hired, you might find yourself disappointed.

Expectation has a lot to do with your experience and if you got anything out of it. Some are to get hired, others are for training and learning. The training and learning camps are the best for younger officials. The evaluation type camps are for those that want to get hired. You have to choose which ones are right for you.

Peace

Before you guys jump all over me just hear what I have to say.

I see nothing wrong with officials who have finished their first year of officiating attending an officiating camp. The key is that the new official attend a teaching camp as opposed to a tryout camp, i.e., the billions and billions of camps now run by college conference assigners.

There are many local teaching camps available, it is just that the new official has to do some research to find them. Now here comes the IAABO promo guys. IAABO conducts four or five officiating camps every year. With the exception of one camp, the emphasis is on two man mechanics, which is what 100% of all new officials use the first couple of years, at least of their career. For the IAABO camps, one can to to the IAABO web site (http://www.iaabo.org) to get information of their camps.

100%? I have to disagree with you there. Our JV officials work the 3 man system. While they do use 2 man for middle school games, most 1st year officials will also get JV games their first year. We also use 3 man in 15U and older AAU games. We have a lot of inexperienced officials working with veterans during these games.

The first camp I went to was a 3 man camp. Of course, it was easier then as there was no rotation. But everybody switched on every foul. Don't get me wrong, learning the 2 man system is important. But in some cases, it's important to learn 3 man just as quickly. Different areas do things differently.

Interesting that in NC the JV officials work 3-person. In VA, at least in northern VA, we work 2-person freshman and JV. We work 3-person for all varsity games and we have several rec leagues that are 3-person.

Regarding camps, I echo what you guys are saying. My first camp was the George Tolliver camp at JMU and it was all 3-person and I had never worked 3-person. Talk about a learning experience! I had been offiating for a couple of years and thought I was fairly good, but knew I needed to get much better. We had one camper that came from Colorado and he had never officiated a game at any level. He said he wanted to learn the right way from the beginning and he did. As I watched him throughout the camp (4 days), you could just see how much he was learning. He won the award as the most improved (naturally).

Stripes, what was the name of the first camp you went to?
To the others: What are the best instructional camps you know of?

The IAABO camp was the first one I attended, it's a great
camp for the first timer, geared towards new refs, very
nice staff, solid fundementals, not at all competetive.
They have camps in the southeast, check 'em out at http://www.IAABO.org

The Pro's And Con's Of New Officials Attending Camps
 

There are a couple of 3 person instructional Camps that stand out to me and they are George Tolivers Camp, and Hoop Mountain. I am sure there are more, but I can only give feedback on the ones that I have attended. Are there still camps out there that only use 2 person crews?

Love2,

When were you at Hoop Mountain? I attended in '99 and '00. Maybe we worked together?

Chuck

The Pro's And Con's Of New Officials Attending Camps
 

Chuck,
I attended Hoop Mountain last summer, sorry I missed you the previous two years!

One of the best instructional camps that uses a 3-man system is Donny Vaden's Camp at VA Tech. I have been the past 2 years and wish I had gone sooner. I waited 3 years before I went to a camp. At Donny's camp, there are a mix of NBA, D1, D2, D3, and veteran high school officials as evaluators. The on-court and off-court instruction is great and you usually work about 3 games a day.

I think the cost is about $225.00 (includes meals and dorms). There are usually about 60 officials there from VA/NC/WV area. Even one guy came from Texas last year. The dates this year are June 19-22. If anyone wants anymore info, feel free to e-mail me.

[email protected]

goodluck this summer

After two short seasns of HS subvarsity and rec ball,
I went to my first ref camp (IAABO, RI). What I
learned is that I REALLY STINK at reffing (so far).
It was a great experience, but the campers had too
wide of a range of experience. from brand new to
very experienced.

I have just completed five years (many more games
per year now) and I will attend the IAABO camp
(2 man) in July in Orlando. I know I will get more
out of it this time, because I have all my basics
down, and won't be overwhelmed by everything.
IAABO has changed their format to offer separate
camps to new and experienced officials (good idea).

Dan Picard offers two weekend camps at Boston College
in June and July. Campers take either 2 or 3 man
mechanics. I attended this one also, last summer. His
e-mail is [email protected]

Camps are very good, but in my case, I feel that I
must (want to) attend one every few years to sharpen my skills. My board doesn't provide much in the way of
working on mechanics and on the floor evaluation. I think the more you know what you are doing, the more you learn.
This can be accomplished by more years and more
games only. Camps are a tool to help you along the way

The camp was Bobby Dibler's. It was held at the University of New Mexico. It is no longer being held. Sorry. Dave Libbey holds some excellent instructional camps. So does David Hall, Marla Denham and Verne Harris. There is a new camp being held this year at the University of Utah, it is run by Duane Allen and will feature some big names in the NCAA--Scott Thornley, Steve Welmer, Bill Gracey and others.

to everyone who responded...thank you very much for all your feedback. I think definately now I will attend some camps after hearing how helpful they are....thanks again everyone for their feedback. Please if there are any camps in the NY area that you suggest or know about please post the information.

With all due respect to the State of North Carolina, the vast majority of H.S. jr. varsity and freshmen, jr. H.S., as well has most of the CYO and YMCA youth leagues, AAU and YBOA tournaments, and adult recreational leagues in the U.S.A, use two-man officiating crews. And in many states, including Ohio, the vast majority of varsity regular season games still use two-man crews. Even the vast majority of games around the world played under FIBA rules use two-man officiating crews.

I am a true believer in three-man officiating crews, but until the schools have the money to afford three-man crews, two-man crews for all levels of play, will be the norm and three-person crews will be the exception. I once asked Dick Schindler, when he was still the NFHS Rules Editor, why the NFHS did not follow the NCAA's lead and eliminate the two-man crew reference in the rules book, and he told me that the high schools would never go for it because of the financial burden that would be imposed on the schools to hire a third official.

And in some respects, I find that learning two-man mechanics serves as a good foundation for learning three-man mechanics. I know that sounds weird (just consider the source), but is my opinion about two-man mechanics.

As a first through third year official, make sure you are going to teaching camps. Your goal is not to become a D1 official so don't go to a camp that has to goal of making you one. Too soon to start going to camp. Never, espeicially if you are not getting feedback from the games you are calling. Don't let your game get so far off track before you can get to a camp to make corrections.

Now as far as 2 man or 3 man camp is concerned that depends on what is going on in your area. I think that all of us need to learn both because at some point in our career you will use both. That Junior High game is still being called with two man so you need to be going to camps that teach it. If you are only doing varsity where three man is being done then you need a camp that emphesis the three man. I have attended camps that teach both. Since I use mainly two man in the games I call but want the better games that use three man I am atteneding a camp that does use both again this year.

All officials need to learn 3 Person.
 

You need to learn 3 Person for those states that use 3 Person Mechanics and for those that plan or would like to move up. I do not think a single official would not benefit from that opportunity to learn it.

No matter what you do during the season, officials that live in areas where 3 Person are used for the varsity games, it is better to know than not know. Knowledge is power and that one time someone does not show up or there is an opening will only benefit the officials that have not been getting a change. You might only get one chance, what is it going to hurt to have that knowledge.

Peace

With all due respect to you, Mark, TH was merely pointing out that your comment about "100%" was overstated. And you yourself have confirmed that since you changed your wording to "the vast majority". I don't think there was any attempt to disparage your comments or the value of 2-man officiating. It was just pointing out that lots of first year guys get a taste of 3-man work.

Chuck

I have found that learning 3-person mechanics helped my 2-person mechanics...the focus on staying in one's primary, the need to always know where you partner(s) is(are), the need to communiccate better or more clearly, all of those things I worked on at 3-person camps helped me when I did/do my two-person games...so even if this official will not work any 3-person games next season, a three-person camp would help her!

The Pro's And Con's Of New Officials Attending Camps
 

I am interested in attending The Don Vaden Camp either this year(if it's not allready filled up) or next year. Can someone tell me why a camp that I have heard so many good things about has no website,or not even listed on the http://www.Officiating.com website?

This is directed to those of you who have attended camps focusing strictly on the two-whistle system.

Without having been to one, my gut feeling is that one would often be better off attending a three-whistle camp. The only big differences between the two systems are the primary areas of coverage and the switches, which are both easy to learn. As JRut wrote earlier, staying in your primary is certainly a huge focus of any 3-whistle camp, and that is something that you can carry over to 2-whistle games. Further, since in 3-whistle you see plays from 50% more angles, you get that much more practice in terms of learning positioning and movement. Granted it's not the same at C as it is at L or T, but in my opinion, it can only help your game to spend time looking at plays from C. If anything, you can learn what kinds of things you can and cannot see from L and T, which may further aid you in acquiring skill at getting good looks from the other two positions.

It also goes without saying that for most officials, the experience in 3-whistle will pay off directly, sooner or later.

So, now that I've popped off about something I've never experienced, what do those of you who have been to a 2-whistle camp think?


jb

That's all fine and good Mark, but my point was that 100@ was incorrect. There are many officials who will face 3 man within the first couple of years. AND, it's certainly doesn't hurt to go to a 3 man camp, where a young official can properly learn the mechanics.

You sure are cantankerous these days. :(

For jbduke, I think all that means I agree with your reply. ;)

I am going to make and educated guess and make the following statement: If it were techically feasible to track every boys' and girls' H.S. freshmen, jr. varsity, and varsity games played in the U.S.A. for one school year, the percentage of games using two-man officiating crews would be well over 90% and maybe over 95%.

I do not doubt that more and more H.S. games are being officiated using three-man officiating crews, but two-man crews is still the dominates H.S. basketball because of economics. And while I have officiated jr. H.S. games where the level of play really could have used a three-man crew, the schools in this country will never (and I really do not like using the word never in this case) pay the money for three-man crews for jr. H.S. games. Dick Schindler hit the nail on the head, it is simple economics that keeps the vast majority of schools from using three-man crews exclusively.

Since I officiate futbol and not football, I cannot speak with authority, but I am sure that there is much discussion about the number of officials used in H.S. football compared to college football.

You're still cantankerous!! :p

I am not cantankerous, just eccentric, besides I am smart and good looking.

I would say you are both cantankerous and eccentric, and
I have yet to see any evidence supporting either of your
last two claims! :D

My wife married me and she has good taste in men.

Guess I am lucky. In Fort Worth, the chapter holds a free instructional camp for officials on 2-man mechanics (from what I understand, geared to the official with 3 or less years of experience). Then they hold a camp to teach three man mechanics in August (unfortunately not free). I was told, and time will tell if it was true, that if you attend the 3-man camp they will give you some games (even if it is small varisty).

So I plan on attending both.

The majority of camps you will find are teaching camps. These are camps who's sole purpose is to teach you how to officiate basketball. Most of the these camps do have a tryout aspect to it but that should not be your purpose in attending. If you go to these camps with tryout in mind then you won't learn what you need to to move on. But since HS Varisty assignors are usually there, you are being evaluated as well as taught.

That said, there are various levels of teaching from camp to camp. Some camps only want those who have officiated less then three years. Some cater to all levels of officials. Some only want those who are ready to move up to college or high level HS Varsity. I can't give you any specific ones because I don't know your area of the country. I can tell you if you live in Colorado, then there is Al English, for the officials who wants to concentrate on HS ball. This is a good one for the first to fifth year official. He has a two man only camp. Dave Hall's camp caters to the middle of the road where first year officials work with Veterans who are getting ready for Div I tryout camp. His is both two man and three man. Then there is Vern Harris who focus's on the officials who has been calling a few years and wants to move on to the next level. His camp is totally three man.

There are a small minority of camps that are tryout camps. They cost a lot of money and the sole purpose is to find new talent to call college ball. From what I have been told, the only thing you will learn is that there are 30 other officials that are just as good as you, probably better.

Well Tim,......
 

In Illinois many of the camps are "tryout" camps. Or at least have a "tryout" element to them.

In Illinois it is required for officials to go to a camp in their particular sport every 3 years in order to keep their license. We have what they call a 4 hour camp and a 6 hour camp. The 4 hour camp is just classroom camp. You go over mechanics and some rules applications all in a classroom setting. The 6 hour camp is where you have both a classroom and court time during the camp. The 6 hour camps for the most part are "tryout" camps or have a heavy element of tryout to them. Of course you can learn, but those that are the cream of the crop get hired or are used in some capacity for the assignors that either help out with the camps or observe officials there.

And in many of the camps that deal with college level evaluation are "tryout" camps. At least that is what I have seen.

Peace

Re: Well Tim,......
 

Rut, I agree. All camps are tryout camps in one way or another. Because this is where the assignors go to see who they want to call games. But since most of these camps have an educational aspect to it they can be treated not as a tryout oportunity. The tryout camps I am refering to are the College type camps. Games only, little to no instruction.

If you would like to come to Florida and attend a truly instructional camp for learning purposes only and also be in the sunshine as well, let me know. (probably a run on sentence).

Plus there are instructors and guests from all levels in attendance giving up their time and helping others.

Plus the price is right!!