The Pro's And Con's Of New Officials Attending Camps

[Marty Rogers]

After two short seasns of HS subvarsity and rec ball,
I went to my first ref camp (IAABO, RI). What I
learned is that I REALLY STINK at reffing (so far).
It was a great experience, but the campers had too
wide of a range of experience. from brand new to
very experienced.

I have just completed five years (many more games
per year now) and I will attend the IAABO camp
(2 man) in July in Orlando. I know I will get more
out of it this time, because I have all my basics
down, and won't be overwhelmed by everything.
IAABO has changed their format to offer separate
camps to new and experienced officials (good idea).

Dan Picard offers two weekend camps at Boston College
in June and July. Campers take either 2 or 3 man
mechanics. I attended this one also, last summer. His
e-mail is [email protected]

Camps are very good, but in my case, I feel that I
must (want to) attend one every few years to sharpen my skills. My board doesn't provide much in the way of
working on mechanics and on the floor evaluation. I think the more you know what you are doing, the more you learn.
This can be accomplished by more years and more
games only. Camps are a tool to help you along the way

[stripes]

Originally posted by ReadyToRef
Stripes, what was the name of the first camp you went to?
To the others: What are the best instructional camps you know of?

The camp was Bobby Dibler's. It was held at the University of New Mexico. It is no longer being held. Sorry. Dave Libbey holds some excellent instructional camps. So does David Hall, Marla Denham and Verne Harris. There is a new camp being held this year at the University of Utah, it is run by Duane Allen and will feature some big names in the NCAA--Scott Thornley, Steve Welmer, Bill Gracey and others.

[cali girl ref]

to everyone who responded...thank you very much for all your feedback. I think definately now I will attend some camps after hearing how helpful they are....thanks again everyone for their feedback. Please if there are any camps in the NY area that you suggest or know about please post the information.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

100%? I have to disagree with you there. Our JV officials work the 3 man system. While they do use 2 man for middle school games, most 1st year officials will also get JV games their first year. We also use 3 man in 15U and older AAU games. We have a lot of inexperienced officials working with veterans during these games.

The first camp I went to was a 3 man camp. Of course, it was easier then as there was no rotation. But everybody switched on every foul. Don't get me wrong, learning the 2 man system is important. But in some cases, it's important to learn 3 man just as quickly. Different areas do things differently.

With all due respect to the State of North Carolina, the vast majority of H.S. jr. varsity and freshmen, jr. H.S., as well has most of the CYO and YMCA youth leagues, AAU and YBOA tournaments, and adult recreational leagues in the U.S.A, use two-man officiating crews. And in many states, including Ohio, the vast majority of varsity regular season games still use two-man crews. Even the vast majority of games around the world played under FIBA rules use two-man officiating crews.

I am a true believer in three-man officiating crews, but until the schools have the money to afford three-man crews, two-man crews for all levels of play, will be the norm and three-person crews will be the exception. I once asked Dick Schindler, when he was still the NFHS Rules Editor, why the NFHS did not follow the NCAA's lead and eliminate the two-man crew reference in the rules book, and he told me that the high schools would never go for it because of the financial burden that would be imposed on the schools to hire a third official.

And in some respects, I find that learning two-man mechanics serves as a good foundation for learning three-man mechanics. I know that sounds weird (just consider the source), but is my opinion about two-man mechanics.

[Tim Roden]

As a first through third year official, make sure you are going to teaching camps. Your goal is not to become a D1 official so don't go to a camp that has to goal of making you one. Too soon to start going to camp. Never, espeicially if you are not getting feedback from the games you are calling. Don't let your game get so far off track before you can get to a camp to make corrections.

Now as far as 2 man or 3 man camp is concerned that depends on what is going on in your area. I think that all of us need to learn both because at some point in our career you will use both. That Junior High game is still being called with two man so you need to be going to camps that teach it. If you are only doing varsity where three man is being done then you need a camp that emphesis the three man. I have attended camps that teach both. Since I use mainly two man in the games I call but want the better games that use three man I am atteneding a camp that does use both again this year.

[JRutledge]

You need to learn 3 Person for those states that use 3 Person Mechanics and for those that plan or would like to move up. I do not think a single official would not benefit from that opportunity to learn it.

No matter what you do during the season, officials that live in areas where 3 Person are used for the varsity games, it is better to know than not know. Knowledge is power and that one time someone does not show up or there is an opening will only benefit the officials that have not been getting a change. You might only get one chance, what is it going to hurt to have that knowledge.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

With all due respect to the State of North Carolina, the vast majority of H.S. jr. varsity and freshmen, jr. H.S., as well has most of the CYO and YMCA youth leagues, AAU and YBOA tournaments, and adult recreational leagues in the U.S.A, use two-man officiating crews.

With all due respect to you, Mark, TH was merely pointing out that your comment about "100%" was overstated. And you yourself have confirmed that since you changed your wording to "the vast majority". I don't think there was any attempt to disparage your comments or the value of 2-man officiating. It was just pointing out that lots of first year guys get a taste of 3-man work.

Chuck

[rockyroad]

I have found that learning 3-person mechanics helped my 2-person mechanics...the focus on staying in one's primary, the need to always know where you partner(s) is(are), the need to communiccate better or more clearly, all of those things I worked on at 3-person camps helped me when I did/do my two-person games...so even if this official will not work any 3-person games next season, a three-person camp would help her!

[Love2ref4Ever]

I am interested in attending The Don Vaden Camp either this year(if it's not allready filled up) or next year. Can someone tell me why a camp that I have heard so many good things about has no website,or not even listed on the http://www.Officiating.com website?

[jbduke]

This is directed to those of you who have attended camps focusing strictly on the two-whistle system.

Without having been to one, my gut feeling is that one would often be better off attending a three-whistle camp. The only big differences between the two systems are the primary areas of coverage and the switches, which are both easy to learn. As JRut wrote earlier, staying in your primary is certainly a huge focus of any 3-whistle camp, and that is something that you can carry over to 2-whistle games. Further, since in 3-whistle you see plays from 50% more angles, you get that much more practice in terms of learning positioning and movement. Granted it's not the same at C as it is at L or T, but in my opinion, it can only help your game to spend time looking at plays from C. If anything, you can learn what kinds of things you can and cannot see from L and T, which may further aid you in acquiring skill at getting good looks from the other two positions.

It also goes without saying that for most officials, the experience in 3-whistle will pay off directly, sooner or later.

So, now that I've popped off about something I've never experienced, what do those of you who have been to a 2-whistle camp think?


jb

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

With all due respect to the State of North Carolina, the vast majority of H.S. jr. varsity and freshmen, jr. H.S., as well has most of the CYO and YMCA youth leagues, AAU and YBOA tournaments, and adult recreational leagues in the U.S.A, use two-man officiating crews. And in many states, including Ohio, the vast majority of varsity regular season games still use two-man crews. Even the vast majority of games around the world played under FIBA rules use two-man officiating crews.

That's all fine and good Mark, but my point was that 100@ was incorrect. There are many officials who will face 3 man within the first couple of years. AND, it's certainly doesn't hurt to go to a 3 man camp, where a young official can properly learn the mechanics.

You sure are cantankerous these days.

For jbduke, I think all that means I agree with your reply.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I am going to make and educated guess and make the following statement: If it were techically feasible to track every boys' and girls' H.S. freshmen, jr. varsity, and varsity games played in the U.S.A. for one school year, the percentage of games using two-man officiating crews would be well over 90% and maybe over 95%.

I do not doubt that more and more H.S. games are being officiated using three-man officiating crews, but two-man crews is still the dominates H.S. basketball because of economics. And while I have officiated jr. H.S. games where the level of play really could have used a three-man crew, the schools in this country will never (and I really do not like using the word never in this case) pay the money for three-man crews for jr. H.S. games. Dick Schindler hit the nail on the head, it is simple economics that keeps the vast majority of schools from using three-man crews exclusively.

Since I officiate futbol and not football, I cannot speak with authority, but I am sure that there is much discussion about the number of officials used in H.S. football compared to college football.

[BktBallRef]

You're still cantankerous!!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
You're still cantankerous!!

I am not cantankerous, just eccentric, besides I am smart and good looking.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am not cantankerous, just eccentric, besides I am smart and good looking.

I would say you are both cantankerous and eccentric, and
I have yet to see any evidence supporting either of your
last two claims!