Do I shoot in my basket or my opponents' basket? I'm sure this is in the definitions section, could you please cite the rule? (Yes, I DO have a book. It's at the school; I'm not.)

In basketball, your basket is the basket you shoot at.

In football, your end zone is the one that you defend.

BktBallRef is correct. Your rule reference would be 4-5-1 which reads as follows:

<I> A team's own basket is the one into which it's players try to throw the ball.</I>

Z

In most games, the emphasis is on the word try. ;)

NFHS, NCAA, and NBA/WNBA: A team attempts to throw the ball into its basket.

FIBA: A team attempts to throw the ball into its opponents basket.

Sorry, Mark, I can't quite understand you. You're speaking metric again. :D

Knock off the metric put downs. The metric system is a system of measurement. And it is far superior to the English system.

Regarding baskets, it is just a matter how the different rules committees define whose basket is whose. All I did is point out how these definitions are in the different rules codes. It appears that the U.S.A./Canada based codes (NBCOUSAC, NFHS, NCAA, NBA/WNBA) wants the teams to shoot at their own baskets and defend their opponents baskets. The rest of the world wants just the opposite.

FYI: NBCOUSAC -- National Basketball Committee of the United States and Canada, which split into the NFHS and NCAA in 1978 or 79, I can never remember without looking at my old rules books.

Dude, where's my sense of humor?!

Somebody needs a nap! :)

I do believe that Mark's "sense of humor" transplant operation has just been officially declared a failure.:D

What are you - the international PR person for the European Union? ;)

Besides, you're confusing "superior" with "easy". Personally, I enjoy the challenge of the English system. Any trained monkey can understand the metric system. Where's the fun in that?

"Metric" is not just a system of measurement, it's a way of life. The reason we make fun of it is because of the arrogance of FEEBLE in calling themselves the governing body for international basketball. Says who? My association never recognized them. Besides, basketball is a North American sport, invented by a Canadian in the U.S. The Euros should stick to that sport where you can't use your hands and no one ever scores.

And, while we're at it - all the Euro players that come to the NBA should take a side trip to Wheel Of Fortune and buy a few vowels.

As far as I'm concerned, FEEBLE can take their trapazoid and shove it.

OOOOHH - that would hurt. :p

Wha? That sounds like my days attending a Catholic High
School.

Quote:

And, while we're at it - all the Euro players that come to the NBA should take a side trip to Wheel Of Fortune and buy a few vowels.

Ah, my dear Watson, yet another clue!

Quote:

As far as I'm concerned, FEEBLE can take their trapazoid and shove it. OOOOHH - that would hurt. :p

I think Tony is right, both Marks could do with a 15
deci-hour nap!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Padgett And, while we're at it - all the Euro players that come to the NBA should take a side trip to Wheel Of Fortune and buy a few vowels.

Ah, my dear Watson, yet another clue!

[quote]

HAHA - fooled ya' again. Give it up - it's not I, er, I mean me.

BTW - I liked your Catholic school comment. Worthy of me, and that's high praise indeed. :)

Also BTW - here's another instance of Euro arrogance. I used to work at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. At one point, we had an exhibit on "time". In the exhibit, it stated that the units we use to measure time (seconds, minutes, etc.) were metric. The reason? The International Metric Association said so!!!!

I used to puke on that exhibit. :P

Ancient Chinese Proverb:
"If you don't want anyone to get your goat, don't let them know where it's tied."

Ancient French Proverb:
"We don't have to spend money on our own defense or let the U.S. use our airspace. If anything goes wrong, the Americans will bail our asses out just like they always do - besides, we have soccer, er, I mean football."

Did you see this quote from one of the sitcoms last week? I didn't see which one, only read the quote. At breakfast, someone said, "This French toast is great. In fact, it's so French it keeps surrendering to the German sausage."

Damn, now I'm getting political. Sorry. Eventually, this will become a basketball board again. Stay tuned.

Especially if you shove it wide side first! :D

If some of you would only take the time to read the FIBA and NBA/WNBA rules books, you would see that much of the rules are the same as the NFHS/NCAA rules, especially definitions of traveling and blocking and screeing for FIBA and NFHS/NCAA.

Wait Watson, I fear a red herring. Most devious...most
devious!

Quote:

BTW - I liked your Catholic school comment. Worthy of me, and that's high praise indeed. :)

Ah geeze, thanks again! :)

Quote:

Also BTW - here's another instance of Euro arrogance. I used to work at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. At one point, we had an exhibit on "time". In the exhibit, it stated that the units we use to measure time (seconds, minutes, etc.) were metric. The reason? The International Metric Association said so!!!! I used to puke on that exhibit. :P

Seconds are part of the metric (MKS) system and the English
system. You can have it both ways! :)

Fer goshsakes, how many times do I have to state I can't read the FEEBLE rulebook because I don't read metric!!!!! :p

Maybe they should print it in Esperanto. Ya, right.

Besides, even if it was in English, I wouldn't have the time to read it. I'm too busy supporting NATO.

Hey - have you ever noticed that the names of most of the Euro players in the NBA appear daily in the newspaper? No, not in the box scores - in the Jumble.

Well, Mark, good news.

If the league psychiatrists ever say that you can't work basketball any more, you can always get a job as a stand-up comic. :D

You mean - become a coach?

Of course, they're only stand-up comics until I call a T. Then they're sit-down comics.

Very funny Mark - since you're having a friendly (I hope) dig at us metric FEEBLE referees - it's my turn to have a laugh at the expense of Americans:

- George Dubya Bush (do I need to say any more?)
- Heston and the NRA - when you have a high school shooting, don't ban guns, give teachers guns! (Great idea!)
- Calling your NBA, Baseball, Football (etc) competition winners "World Champions" last time I checked world championships were (by definition) open to all countries - not one or two!

And that's just a starting point :)

My mom was a nurse for years and at the hospital where she worked, they really did have metric clocks. 100 seconds in a minute and 100 minutes in an hour. (They thoughtfully left the 24 hour system intact.) So if you left work at 4:45 in the afternoon, your timecard would say "1675". Very strange, but she didn't seem to have any problems with it.

Chuck

Personally, I don't think appreciate your remarks about our country. Poking fun at the Metric System or a basketball association is one thing. You don't read any remarks from us about Australia. Of course, we can start.

1- For your information, it's George W. Bush. You may think it's fun to joke about him but he's held our country together over the past 8 months. Who's the President of Australia right now, hmmmm?
2- There are people with different opinions everywhere. It's a very, very small percentage of Americans who would support teachers having guns. But whether we agree with it or not, they have a right to express that view.
3- World Champions are the best at what they do. Considering that the NBA Champion is the best basketball team in the world, why shouldn't they be considered World Champions? Or haven't you noticed that the players in the world outside of the USA are coming to the NBA to play?

You may not like us, but the world would be a hell of a place without us.

[Edited by BktBallRef on May 3rd, 2002 at 11:28 AM]

Wow, Tony. Kind of harsh. Oz has been around for a while, and I think his comments were intended in a Saturday Night Live sort of way. Cut back on the caffiene, maybe?

Chuck

Sorry, but he pissed me off. Nobody's running the Queen, the Aborigines, or Australian rules football into the ground. I've been overseas a few times and have seen this type of attitude about Americans. I don't have a problem with his 3rd comment, but let's discuss and argue basketball and leave nationalities out of it.

I agree. Our young Ozzie friend needed a slap down & I would
have done it if you didn't beat me to it.

Gee,aren't you two really CANTANKEROUS to-day.I think you BOTH need to have a nap!:D
Would it help if MTD Sr. and I sang "Waltzing Matilda" to you?

Nyork!Nyork!Nyork!

No doubt about Woody, I would love a nap! :)

Oz Dude - I wasn't poking fun at any referees. All referees are great in my opinion (except for that one guy I worked with last week, but that's another story). I just like to poke fun at FEEBLE itself. You can't help it if your country still is a Euro colony. ;)

As to your comments, you make some good points, especially number 3. I have always thought we were somewhat pretentious using that title, although until recently, there really wasn't much valid competition for it outside the US. They do use the term "NBA World Champions" now, so I guess they are the champs of the NBA world, whatever that is.

BTW - the vast majority of Americans are not NRA members and think Heston has become a caricature of himself. However, gun control is one hornet's nest I don't want to get into.

400 views?
 

All I wanted to know was if you shot into your own basket or the opponents'. Now 30 replies and 400 views later, we've started an international incident?!!?!??!

In honor of the 10th anniversary of the famous quote:

http://www.wavsource.com/news/get_along.wav

I agree with the "World Champion" take, it never seemed quite right to me, and the argument that they are all coming to the NBA to play floats like a lead balloon, it says way more about the ridiculous amounts of jack being thrown at the players than it does about the quality of play. I do believe that they are the best teams in the world, but to assume that makes an... And some of us are a little testy with Oz's comments, almost like when someone actually suggests that a fellow official has made a mistake..GASP....

Re: 400 views?
 

Coach my posting of May 01st answered your question and I will post it again:

NFHS, NCAA, and NBA/WNBA: A team attempts to throw the ball into its basket.

FIBA: A team attempts to throw the ball into its opponents basket.


As far as the international incident, I believe that our NBA Champions would win the FIBA World Championship hands down. But that is not the point.

I have to defend Oz on general principles. Western civilization owes it survival to the U.S.A and the four major countries of the British Empire (Great Britain, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand). Time and time again, it is these five countries that come to the rescue of western civilization at a great price to their own citizens to make sure that totalitarian states do not over run this planet and that the values of freedom that we cherish do not vanish.

My father spent 42 months in the Pacific Theater and said that the Aussies were great people, and he sincerely meant that.

Re: Re: 400 views?
 

So why don't they join with us in using NF and NCAA and NBA rules, instead of following the lead of the Euros who are, for the most part, ungrateful jerks who wouldn't know how basketball should really be played if it jumped up from the Maginot line and bit them in the hiney.

BTW - much as it pains me to say it, we would have had a really tough time in WWII without the Soviets. We should at least give credit where credit is due. Plus - they make great salad dressing.

So, who said they weren't? They just need to get un-metricized.

Also BTW - wasn't it Noel Coward who said that America and Great Britian are two countries separated by a common language?

As I have stated before, if one would just take the time to read NFHS/NCAA, FIBA, and NBA/WNBA rules books, one would be very suprised at home much the rules are the same.

I officiate 99.99% of my games using NFHS/NCAA Men's & Women's rules (and even officiated women's college using NAGWS rules, and boy were the rules fun). I am a USA Basketball Referee, and the only time I had the chance to officiate games using those rules, a serious neck injury kept me from officiating. I have never officiatied a game using NBA/WNBA rules, but it is nice to have a familiarity with them to understand how and why the rules come to be.

I think that an official who is so close minded to the point of ridiculing instead of trying to make a constructive contribution to the discussion does a disservice to our profession as well as to himself.

Gee - you wouldn't be referring to anyone in particular, would you? :p

I suggest you open a dictionary and look up the word "satire".

In the immortal words of Attila The Hun, "lighten up".

BTW - what do Garfield The Cat and Attila The Hun have in common? They have the same middle name.

NYUK, NYUK, NYUK.

Re: Re: Re: 400 views?
 

Yeah, I just love that French dressing... :eek:

Re: Re: Re: Re: 400 views?
 

I agree that the citizens of the USSR suffered greatly during WW2 but be made a deal with the Devil by having Stalin as an ally. Stalin and Hitler we equally evil (oh how I hated to use that word).

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 400 views?
 

After the Germans broke their non-agression pact with the Russians, the attack on Stalingrad resulted in a devastating loss of men and material for the Axis, which helped us in the European invasion. The mistake we made was political and was partly caused by FDR's misguided admiration for Stalin as a great leader.

Maybe we should have listened to Patton and turned east after VE Day and kept fighting. Sure would have saved a lot of grief - plus, the Blazers may have had Sabonis earlier when he still had knees. ;)

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 400 views?
 

I agree with your assement and we should have listened to Patton.

For crying out loud - lighten up a little, don't get so carried away with your own importance. My comments were intended to be good natured digs at a couple of the things that I personally (and many people I know) find amusing about the USA. To clarify:

1. Yes Bush Jnr has done a fantastic job under difficult circumstances - that doesn't take anything away from the fact that he also made some of the most ridiculous comments pre-election.

2. I didn't say that all Americans support the NRA, nor do I have a problem with those that do. I simply find it amusing that <b>some</b> people seem to think the best solution for students with guns is more guns.

3. Regardless of whether the NBA is the strongest competition in the world or not, the NBA Champions are <b>NOT</b> World Champions. By definition World Champions are those that have defeated teams that represent other nations. Yes any NBA team would possibly defeat any national team, and Team USA is the current Senior Men's World Champion - however the Los Angeles Lakers (or any other NBA team) are not (and never will be) the World Champions.


For those that took offence at my attempt at humour - I appologise, however I really do feel that you need to lighten up a little.

Maybe I'm taking myself a little too seriously ;) but exactly which definition might you be citing here? Where is it written that a World Champion must defeat teams that represent other nations?

Suppose no other nation fields a team that participates in a certain sport. Then wouldn't the champion of whatever nation holds the competition be considered the World Champion? This would be the situation in the earliest days of baseball when the "World Series" was born. The winner was the World Champion simply b/c there were no other participants.

Or again, suppose that they come up with a format for the World Championships that pits the NBA Champions against the Olympic champions (and just for the illustration, suppose that the Toronto Raptors don't exist). The Lakers win the NBA playoffs and the US team wins the Olympics. The Lakers beat up on the Olympic team. Wouldn't the Lakers then be entitled to call themselves World Champions, even tho they never played a team from a foreign country?

I agree that in our day and age, it may be presumptuous to refer to any American champion as the "World Champion". However, it's not wrong "by definition" as you claim.

Remember, I stuck up for you earlier in this thread!!! :D

Chuck

[Edited by ChuckElias on May 5th, 2002 at 06:33 PM]

I don't recognize some of your words. Did you mean "For those that took offense at my attempt at humor ?

Why the metric spelling? ;)

Or - are those words just Australian for beer?

Chuck - I see your point, if America was the only place in the World that played basketball, then the US Champions would also be World Champions. My arguement with the describing NBA Champions as World Champions is that they do not play anyone else in the world. The response that they are the best in the world is (INMHO) a bit of a cop-out, because they haven't proven it. But thanks for looking out for me before :)

Mark - by now you should know that <b>all</b> words in Australian mean beer!

The issue with the NBA referring to themselves as World Champions goes back to the days when it was the only professional basketball league in the world. I guess they've seen no reason to change that. Cop out? They haven't proven it? I don't think so. I'd put them up against any other team in the world.

I too would put them up against any other team in the world - and I would expect them to win. But the fact is that they don't, and for that reason alone that shouldn't be refered to as World Champions. If the NBA Champions play in a championship against other clubs from around the world (I think it's called the McDonald's World Championship or something similar) then I would accept them being crowned World Club Champion - like the Houston Rockets were a few years ago.

Look at it from this perspective, the LA Lakers are the NBA "World Champions" and then go on to play a competition against league champions from other competitions (Europe, Australia etc). If/when the Lakers win - what do you call them? Really World Champions? Double World Champions? Universe Champions? What happens if they lose - could they be World Champions and Runner's Up?

I am not disagreeing that the NBA is the strongest competition in the world, and that it is the elite level of basketball - but believing that someone/something is the best in the world doesn't make it a fact.