Brian and rec ball

[ChuckElias]

originally written by Brian Watson
Plus, it makes me want to vomit when I hear people tell rookies to work as much rec ball as possible, what a better place to learn your mechanics...but that is a different soapbox altogether.

Brian, this is advice that I often give to new officials, so I'm honestly curious as to the reasons that have triggered your reverse peristalsis. Rut has often voiced his disdain for rec leagues; but my understanding is that, for him, "rec league" is synonomous with "adult league". Around here, rec leagues are mostly kids' leagues. We try to encourage our newer guys to do a lot of 13U and 11U basketball. I really believe that it's a great way to work on mechanics and put your rules' knowledge to the test. I know that it helped me when I was starting out. (The adult leagues are a different matter.)

What has your experience been? And would you tell us why you would discourage officials from working these kinds of games?

Thanks.

Chuck

[stripes]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Brian, this is advice that I often give to new officials, so I'm honestly curious as to the reasons that have triggered your reverse peristalsis.

Thanks.

Chuck

I have told many young officials to work these games for one reason--to see plays. As a young official especially, you need to see plays. Lots of them and different ones. It is the only way to get used to being on the court and reacting to what happens there. The fastest and easiest way to get games is in rec leagues.

[Brian Watson]

Most of the organized leagues around here have running clocks, no bonus, no free thorws, or just one on shooting fouls, so the emphasis is getting the ball in back play asap. It is really instructional. Sometimes you even have the coaches come out and start coaching.

I do it because some of these leagues are relaxing and easy, but there is not a single mechanic you would use in the winter. If you tried, either your partner or the coaches would run you for "wasting" time. We are there to call some foul and violatons so the younger kids will know what they can and cannot get away with in the winter, but that is mainly it. You don't report fouls, you generally don't adminsiter a throw in (you let them throw in after you nod at them or maybe you just have them "check it up" after a defensive off the ball foul).

These leagues draw guys who work in the winter looking to keep in shape (like me) but they also draw a lot gravy training refs that don't work very much in the winter, haven't cracked a rule book since the nixon administration,and really are a bad influence on the younger crowd. I would rather seem them work a steady diet of MS ball, where there is some organization. If the rec leagus in your area let you work on mechanics, then great, I agree let the younger guys in there, but here if you are not a veteran official, I think they hurt more than help your skills. Let's face facts, it is for the kids to play, and us to make some quick jack. Nothing more, nothing less. But like I said earlier, I do it so the kids can play too. If there were no refs, they might fold the leauges.

The AAU tourneys are another story, but they vary as well, more mechanics there, but the coaches would probably drive away most of the new guys.

[ChuckElias]

That's a tough situation, Brian. On the one hand, it's probably a low-pressure situation in which to see a lot of different types of plays. On the other hand, newer officials will not get to work on "sharpening" their floor game (reporting fouls, switching, administering FTs, etc). But on the other hand, they will get practice at calling fouls and violations, which is just as important as the mechanics.

So I guess I'd have to see it for myself before triggering my own gag reflex. But I would agree that if there is a more structured middle school league for them to work, I would point them in that direction.

Thanks for the explanation.

Chuck

[Hoosier]

Originally posted by Stripes

I have told many young officials to work these games for one reason--to see plays. As a young official especially, you need to see plays. Lots of them and different ones. It is the only way to get used to being on the court and reacting to what happens there. The fastest and easiest way to get games is in rec leagues.

I have also said this and have been told this. Not only for the purpose of seeing plays, but with all the crazy coaches, it helps in your game management skills as well. You have to go in expecting these coaches to be even worse than the howler monkeys in high school, but if you know that going in, I think you can work on your communication skills and game management. That is one of the things I am working on while I do AAU this spring and summer.

I think it would be a little more difficult in the league with the running clock because you don't have the time to use your mechanics, but you can still get a feel for officiating and running a game.

[zebraman]

Brian,

It's too bad that the league assignor (or whoever is in charge of officials) doesn't have a little higher standard. The rec leagues in our area demand hustle and effort. They also prefer refs with good mechanics and who know the rules because it reflects well on their league. We are able to use it for training by partnering our promising young refs with a vet who isn't too cool to half-*** a rec league.

There is nothing I enjoy more than working with a fairly new partner in a rec league and watching them gain skills and confidence.

Z

[stripes]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hoosier

I think it would be a little more difficult in the league with the running clock because you don't have the time to use your mechanics, but you can still get a feel for officiating and running a game.

I just finished working a tryout camp for guys who had finished their eligibility in college and were looking for jobs overseas. 1 man mechanics, running clock and no foul outs. Definitely not a time to work on (or even worry) about mechanics. I used the camp specifically as an opportunity to work on call selection and game control. You have to know what the game and circumstance are for summertime work and then decide how to use the games to work on things you need. You have to make the learning fit the game because there are instances where the game is not condusive to learning anything else.

[LarryS]

In my first year, I worked 50 rec games after the "season" for a few reasons; see plays, game management, improve my conditioning and to experiment on different floor positions recommended to me in other games. I should mention I started after the camps, so I was learning on the run. My assignor kept me on the younger kids and with veterans that were great teachers. I think the rec games helped a lot.

As for the mechanics, I always used what I was taught during the game. I had one coached who complained I was wasting time during one of the many times we called a foul on his players. I simply told him that if he thought we were wasting time reporting fouls he needed to tell his players to stop committing them.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Brian, this is advice that I often give to new officials, so I'm honestly curious as to the reasons that have triggered your reverse peristalsis. Rut has often voiced his disdain for rec leagues; but my understanding is that, for him, "rec league" is synonomous with "adult league". Around here, rec leagues are mostly kids' leagues. We try to encourage our newer guys to do a lot of 13U and 11U basketball. I really believe that it's a great way to work on mechanics and put your rules' knowledge to the test. I know that it helped me when I was starting out. (The adult leagues are a different matter.)

What has your experience been? And would you tell us why you would discourage officials from working these kinds of games?

Thanks.

Chuck

I think the big misunderstanding that many have with my comments are the fact that most below HS ball that is played through out the state of Illinois is under the supervision of schools. So kids that play basketball and many other sports for that matter play with the same kids they will go to HS with and play on the varsity team. So by a kids Senior year they have already played probably 6-8 years with each other.

Having said that, we do not have a major distiction between officials that do HS and officials that do Junior High or Grammar School ball. The only distiction that is made is the fact that you either do varsity or college and those that do not.

I always encourage young officials to do anything that has a structure and has some set rules and regulations. So that you are not dealing with officials and coaches and players that do not have to answer for their actions if they get out of line. The Illinois Elementary School Association is the below HS faction of the Illinois Sports Association. It works very similar like the IHSA, but it sactions the games at the Junior High levels and below. Most officials outside of the Chicagoland area do these games all the time and enjoy doing these games. Now the Chicago area, now that is a different story all together.

Peace

[moose69]

my take on rec leagues- i hate them. I'm a young(20 years old) official aspiring to make it to the highest level possible, wether that be the pros, ncaa, or oylmpics. I don't care, i just love officiating. The reason i do rec leagues, is because it makes you a better official, judgment wise. Once you have a decent grasp on mechanics,i'd recomend doing rec league games because it can help improve your game managment skills,deciding what to call, what to pass on. helps with conditioning( 25 min straight time halfs get's your cardio skills back up to par. and plus..you can make some decent cash too.

just my take, like i said..make sure you can have the ability to have 2 different mindframes so you don't bring your rec league mindset to a varsity boys play off game.

Tyler

[Mark Padgett]

This past weekend, I did nine games, ranging from freshman girls to varsity boys. In a freshman boys game, we had a female coach for the third week in a row. She's a real pain and doesn't shut up. I've already T'd her twice in the previous weeks.

Before the game, I asked my partner if he had this coach before. He said yes. I said, "then you know she's really vocal."

He said, "Actually, I would have used the word b*tchy".

I replied, "Vocal sounds much nicer, but b*tchy works for me."

Guess what? I T'd her in the first half and he T'd her in the second.

After she left, it was much, much quieter.

[Kelvin green]

My two cents...

A new Official needs to be on the floor as mucj as possible.
Even with running clocks, no shots etc, a new official can work on mechanics.
A foul means fist in the air, violation is hand. A travel call is a travel call is a travel call.

I even think new officials should work men's games, the guys are big, they are strong, You learn about positioning, you learn about off ball, and you learn alot about game management. You dont have to take the abuse.

New officials need to work summer ball. Experienced officials should work summer ball.

I had a summer game the other night (Varsity Boys) My partner was out of area, and made some questionable calls, and then did not handle the coaches well. These are the things you learn in summer ball.

[DrakeM]

Kelvin,
How DARE you talk about me like that!!!

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Kelvin green
I had a summer game the other night (Varsity Boys)

Where do you live, that it's summer there already?!?! It's still 40 degrees here in New England. I'd love to have summer games already.

Chuck

[DrakeM]

He's out here in the Home of the 2002 Winter Olympic Games!
We've been wearing shorts for at least a month.