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zeedonk Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:02am

Spot of foul mechanic
 
Good morning-

I am currently in a bit of a spot of foul mechanic funk. The HS Federation mechanic signals say that the bird-dog is optional, yet camps and the local board seem to want us cadets to use it in the following manner-> whistle-> bird-dog->indicator (push, illegal use, etc)-> "spot" or "two shots".

Now I spent a good amount of time getting rid of the bird-dog early in the year and I find that to use it really messes me up in terms of flow and polish. After speaking with a few vets and class observers, it seems that this mechanic is used largely to get us to sloooooooow down, as the younger (self included) officials seem to always be in a mechanics rush.

How is the bird-dog mechanic thought of these days? Is is required or optional or depends on your board?

Second, how to higher levels of play look at officials who bird-dog? Do colleges frown on it? If I am observed by a college official, or if I am at a college camp trying out (so to speak) what will the reaction be if I use it?

Thanks

Z

JugglingReferee Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:30am

In my area, even before it went optional, many didn't do the bird-dog when the foul was obvious. I'm glad it's gone. Have a mentor come to a game and get you to slow down to the proper speed.

As for the mechanic in higher levels, it's when in Rome thing. If you're not able to incorporate a new mechanic with ease, you have lots of room to grow. This is not a bad thing - it's bad only if as an official, one doesn't recognize this.

Ch1town Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeedonk
How is the bird-dog mechanic thought of these days? Is is required or optional or depends on your board?

We are an IAABO state, the rule book says the official "may" use the bird dog signal. I never use it but if the powers that be said we "must" I guess I would have to incorporate it in my game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeedonk
Second, how to higher levels of play look at officials who bird-dog? Do colleges frown on it? If I am observed by a college official, or if I am at a college camp trying out (so to speak) what will the reaction be if I use it?

Thanks

I personally haven't seen it used it at the collegiate level. Speaking of the next level, I learned that preliminaries aren't neccessary for each foul call like in HS. Just block, charge, double, intentional, T & sometimes hand-check. I also, heard many clinicians (NBA & D1) questioning why campers were visually indicating 2 shots instead of just verbalizing it.

love2refbball Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:58am

Not sure about the Mens NCAA mechanic - but on the Women's side we do not use the "bird-dog mechanic" and we do not use preliminary signals at the spot of the foul, we do use verbal communication ie: "Blue 22 hold, white 15 shooting 2" or "Red 10 push, white ball oob" and indicate the spot where the ball will be inbounded. The only time you should have a preliminary foul signal at the spot would be on a pc or team control foul or as the lead on a block/charge (T & C should just have a closed fist in case the L comes up with a preliminary, but then if nothing from the L , T or C should indicate block or charge. T & C just have to be patient with their block/charge signal to avoid the blarge.)

MikeK27 Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeedonk
Good morning-

I am currently in a bit of a spot of foul mechanic funk. The HS Federation mechanic signals say that the bird-dog is optional, yet camps and the local board seem to want us cadets to use it in the following manner-> whistle-> bird-dog->indicator (push, illegal use, etc)-> "spot" or "two shots".

Now I spent a good amount of time getting rid of the bird-dog early in the year and I find that to use it really messes me up in terms of flow and polish. After speaking with a few vets and class observers, it seems that this mechanic is used largely to get us to sloooooooow down, as the younger (self included) officials seem to always be in a mechanics rush.

How is the bird-dog mechanic thought of these days? Is is required or optional or depends on your board?

Second, how to higher levels of play look at officials who bird-dog? Do colleges frown on it? If I am observed by a college official, or if I am at a college camp trying out (so to speak) what will the reaction be if I use it?

Thanks

Z

Being a newer official, at the camp in my area we were told we could use the bird-dog, but it was not recommended. They said no one in the area was using it, so I guess they didn't feel we should start to either. However, in the first couple games I did, I did find myself using it once or twice, but not anymore.

Tio Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeedonk
Good morning-

I am currently in a bit of a spot of foul mechanic funk. The HS Federation mechanic signals say that the bird-dog is optional, yet camps and the local board seem to want us cadets to use it in the following manner-> whistle-> bird-dog->indicator (push, illegal use, etc)-> "spot" or "two shots".

Now I spent a good amount of time getting rid of the bird-dog early in the year and I find that to use it really messes me up in terms of flow and polish. After speaking with a few vets and class observers, it seems that this mechanic is used largely to get us to sloooooooow down, as the younger (self included) officials seem to always be in a mechanics rush.

How is the bird-dog mechanic thought of these days? Is is required or optional or depends on your board?

Second, how to higher levels of play look at officials who bird-dog? Do colleges frown on it? If I am observed by a college official, or if I am at a college camp trying out (so to speak) what will the reaction be if I use it?

Thanks

Z

Do not under any circumstances use a bird dog in a college environment. It will only hurt your believability and label you as a high school official. Believe me, college coaches will figure out if you are a high school official very quickly.

JRutledge Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:28pm

The Bird-Dog is for clarification purposes, nothing else. That is why it is optional at the NF level and NCAA Men's levels. You use it if there is possibly more than one person around and it might be unclear who fouled. I bird-dog on a regular basis, only when it is likely two or more people could have committed the foul. Plays on the perimeter like a foul on the guard then I might not do anything but the preliminary signal.

Peace

JRutledge Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tio
Do not under any circumstances use a bird dog in a college environment. It will only hurt your believability and label you as a high school official. Believe me, college coaches will figure out if you are a high school official very quickly.

And that is not true, not true at all. College Men's this is an acceptable signal and a widely used signal.

Peace

Tio Mon Aug 11, 2008 02:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge
And that is not true, not true at all. College Men's this is an acceptable signal and a widely used signal.

Peace

My supervisors have suggested that we not use a bird dog. Maybe there are different philosophies, but I do what my bosses want.

To say it is a widely used signal is a bit of an exaggeration unless your reference to college baskeball is on ESPN classic.

Mark Padgett Mon Aug 11, 2008 03:06pm

In our local kids rec league, we allow and even encourage the bird dog but only if accompanied by the official reporting the following:

Hey, bird dog get away from my quail
Hey, bird dog you're on the wrong trail
Bird dog you better leave my lovey-dove alone
Hey, bird dog get away from my chick
Hey, bird dog you better get away quick
Bird dog you better find a chicken little of your own

It makes the games longer but they're much more fun this way.

JRutledge Mon Aug 11, 2008 03:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tio
My supervisors have suggested that we not use a bird dog. Maybe there are different philosophies, but I do what my bosses want.

To say it is a widely used signal is a bit of an exaggeration unless your reference to college baskeball is on ESPN classic.

That is your supervisor that feels that way, but that does not apply across the board. I attended multiple college camps this summer alone with people I do not work for and in the past with people I do work for and it is I was never told not to bird-dog and never heard anyone told not to bird-dog. I know I did it several times during camp and I did not hear a single word about it either way. And bird-dogging is in the CCA Mechanics book which a few of the camps wanted us to use almost religiously when it came to signal mechanics.

Now if you have never seen bird-dogging, either you do not watch college basketball on a regular basis (like this past NCAA Tournament or Championship game) or you are only thinking of what was used years ago. But it was used often enough where I noticed it and by some of the top officials in the country on the Men's side. Women's basketball is different and I cannot speak for that side of the game. I can think of two Final Four Officials that used the bird-dog in the Final Four this year.

Peace

BillyMac Mon Aug 11, 2008 07:37pm

Mark Padgett Is The Joker, He's A Bird ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
Hey, bird dog get away from my quail
Hey, bird dog you're on the wrong trail
Bird dog you better leave my lovey-dove alone
Hey, bird dog get away from my chick
Hey, bird dog you better get away quick
Bird dog you better find a chicken little of your own

http://re3.yt-thm-a01.yimg.com/image/25/m3/2545503336

BillyMac Mon Aug 11, 2008 07:48pm

IAABO Foul Mechanics ...
 
IAABO Foul Mechanics:

1) Sound the whistle while raising one arm, with fist clenched, straight up.
2) Continue holding the foul signal and step toward the player who committed the foul.
3) When clarification is necessary, extend the other arm, with palm down, toward the fouler's midsection.
4) Stop and state the color and number of the player who committed the foul.
5) While at the site of the foul, indicate the type of foul by giving the applicable signal.
6) If a try for goal is involved, check with your partner to see if the ball entered the basket.
7) If the try is successful, signal to count the goal as soon as it is confirmed.
8) Verbally inform the free thrower and partner of the free thrower's number. Visibly inform partner of the number of free throws, if any.
9) Indicate the throwin spot if a throwin will follow.
10) Officials shall confirm the proper procedure when fouls are flagrant, intentional, simultaneous, technical, double, or false double.
11) Proceed to the reporting area.

Mregor Mon Aug 11, 2008 08:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeedonk
How is the bird-dog mechanic thought of these days? Is is required or optional or depends on your board?

I never think about it, but do recall using it once in a while for clarification. My suggestion would be to do as you are told by the senior officials or assigners, regardless of what anyone does anywhere else.

Mregor

JugglingReferee Mon Aug 11, 2008 09:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mregor
I never think about it, but do recall using it once in a while for clarification. My suggestion would be to do as you are told by the senior officials or assigners, regardless of what anyone does anywhere else.

Mregor

Something like a "when in Rome" thing? :p

Kelvin green Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac
IAABO Foul Mechanics:

1) Sound the whistle while raising one arm, with fist clenched, straight up.
2) Continue holding the foul signal and step toward the player who committed the foul.
3) When clarification is necessary, extend the other arm, with palm down, toward the fouler's midsection.
4) Stop and state the color and number of the player who committed the foul.
5) While at the site of the foul, indicate the type of foul by giving the applicable signal.
6) If a try for goal is involved, check with your partner to see if the ball entered the basket.
7) If the try is successful, signal to count the goal as soon as it is confirmed.
8) Verbally inform the free thrower and partner of the free thrower's number. Visibly inform partner of the number of free throws, if any.
9) Indicate the throwin spot if a throwin will follow.
10) Officials shall confirm the proper procedure when fouls are flagrant, intentional, simultaneous, technical, double, or false double.
11) Proceed to the reporting area.

I am glad that I dont do IAABO--Call three fouls and the quarter takes an hour. ---

All of these 11 steps are done BEFORE you even report the foul.... The longer this takes the more time a coach has to yell... Get it right but get it done and get ball back in play!

BillyMac Tue Aug 12, 2008 06:26am

IAABO Versus NFHS Foul Mechanics ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelvin green
I am glad that I don't do IAABO. All of these 11 steps are done BEFORE you even report the foul!

Actually, it's only ten steps, listed under the heading When A Foul Occurs. I added step eleven, which is the first step of eleven listed under the heading Reporting The Foul. There is also a third section headed by Reminders (freezing, moving around players, switching, etc.).

Our IAABO Handbook no longer covers NFHS mechanics. How do NFHS mechanics differ from IAABO mechanics, specifically in terms of mechanics When A Foul Occurs?

Scrapper1 Tue Aug 12, 2008 07:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kelvin green
I am glad that I dont do IAABO--Call three fouls and the quarter takes an hour. ---

All of these 11 steps are done BEFORE you even report the foul.... The longer this takes the more time a coach has to yell...

I don't think there's anything on that list that differs from NFHS procedures, except maybe "step toward the offender".

And obviously, you don't take 2 seconds for each one. I just tried it and it took me 2 seconds.

Mregor Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeedonk
After speaking with a few vets and class observers, it seems that this mechanic is used largely to get us to sloooooooow down, as the younger (self included) officials seem to always be in a mechanics rush.

Slow down at the spot of the foul. Take the time to go through the steps. If you go through the same procedure like they said, whistle, birdog, prelim signal, shots or spot, and do it in a deliberate and VOCAL manner so that everyone in the gym, especially your partner, knows what you've got, and THEN hustle to report, I imagine that soon they'll tell you that you can stop birdogging except for clarification. It's not hard to stop birdogging. When it was dropped as a mechanic, I thought I'd automatically do it anyway just as a habbit, but honestly, it was the easiest mechanic change I've ever had to make.

Roger


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