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-   -   end of game, scoring a bucket for the other team (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/46455-end-game-scoring-bucket-other-team.html)

jkjenning Sat Jul 19, 2008 09:21pm

end of game, scoring a bucket for the other team
 
Good, competitive boys' varsity game, team A turned the ball over on their last possession and was down by 4 with no more than two seconds left. Team B inbounded the ball and scored a layup on team A's goal, so the game ended with team B ahead by 2.

How much of a stretch is it to call an unsporting T on team B? In this situation, since team A simply gave team B a free inbounds it seems correct to let it go, but I would be interested in hearing any opinions on why/when this might be handled differently. Thanks.

Nevadaref Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkjenning
Good, competitive boys' varsity game, team A turned the ball over on their last possession and was down by 4 with no more than two seconds left. Team B inbounded the ball and scored a layup on team A's goal, so the game ended with team B ahead by 2.

How much of a stretch is it to call an unsporting T on team B? In this situation, since team A simply gave team B a free inbounds it seems correct to let it go, but I would be interested in hearing any opinions on why/when this might be handled differently. Thanks.

A thought provoking scenario.

Is the coach of Team B is attempting to use the alloted 5-seconds for the ensuing throw-in to run out the clock because his opponent is out of time-outs?

If so, that is clever, but also not in the spirit of fair play. He is clearly attempting to gain an advantage not intended by the rules.

I doubt that I would have to resort to an unsporting technical foul though. I believe that the situation could simply be handled by blowing the whistle which stops the clock, and then clearly indicating to the teams their proper directions and then restarting play.

BTW that procedure is in the Simplified & Illustrated book.

Texas Aggie Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:07pm

Not sure I understand the question. Are you saying Team B, ahead, scored at A's basket so they could have the 5 second count throw in and run out the clock? If so, this is a non-issue since you stop the clock when team B scores at A's basket. Award B a throw in allowing them to run the baseline. No need for a T here and this doesn't allow them to gain an unfair advantage.

Nevadaref Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:09pm

Is there an echo in here? ;)

Mark Padgett Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:35pm

Obviously, Coach B had team A plus 3 points. :D

BillyMac Sun Jul 20, 2008 06:24am

Is He Out On Bail ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett
Obviously, Coach B had team A plus 3 points.

Did you know that, according to cellphone records, jkjenning talked to Tim Donaghy over 130 times during last season?

just another ref Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref
If so, that is clever.......

Clever is not the first word that occurs to me. This coach felt a need to pull a stunt like this to protect a 4 point lead with 2 seconds left?

Scrapper1 Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref
Clever is not the first word that occurs to me. This coach felt a need to pull a stunt like this to protect a 4 point lead with 2 seconds left?

That was my thought, too, justa. But I didn't want to give everybody an easy shot at telling me I was too dense to figure it out.

Adam Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:10am

Frankly, I don't see how this is at all advantageous to the leading team. With a 4 point lead, have your PG hold the ball once it's passed in and just stand there. Worst case, he gets fouled, shoots free throws, and they still have a 4 point lead with 2 seconds left and a full court to travel.

Throwing the ball in the air would be more advantageous. Worst case, defense catches it and makes a three pointer; game over with a single point win.

No, if anything, the OP is taunting; and that's a pretty big stretch that would need to be determined by the officials on the court depending on other circumstances. If you go with taunting, you now have A down by 2, shooting two technical shots, then getting the ball at half court with 2 seconds left. Hmmmm.

Most likely, just blow it dead, do the directional announcement thing; and when coach asks what you're doing just tell him you thought the kids were confused so you made sure everyone had it right. What's he going to say? "My kids weren't confused."

JugglingReferee Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Frankly, I don't see how this is at all advantageous to the leading team. With a 4 point lead, have your PG hold the ball once it's passed in and just stand there. Worst case, he gets fouled, shoots free throws, and they still have a 4 point lead with 2 seconds left and a full court to travel.

Throwing the ball in the air would be more advantageous. Worst case, defense catches it and makes a three pointer; game over with a single point win.

No, if anything, the OP is taunting; and that's a pretty big stretch that would need to be determined by the officials on the court depending on other circumstances. If you go with taunting, you now have A down by 2, shooting two technical shots, then getting the ball at half court with 2 seconds left. Hmmmm.

Most likely, just blow it dead, do the directional announcement thing; and when coach asks what you're doing just tell him you thought the kids were confused so you made sure everyone had it right. What's he going to say? "My kids weren't confused."

There's no drama in this method though.

Imagine the excitement if you call a taunting T! :eek:

just another ref Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:58pm

Bottom line: I cannot envision the situation where scoring for the other team, intentionally or otherwise, would result in a technical foul.

jkjenning Sun Jul 20, 2008 03:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac
Did you know that, according to cellphone records, jkjenning talked to Tim Donaghy over 130 times during last season?

Tom was calling me, so I can't possibly be implicated! :)

jkjenning Sun Jul 20, 2008 04:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
No, if anything, the OP is taunting; and that's a pretty big stretch that would need to be determined by the officials on the court depending on other circumstances. If you go with taunting, you now have A down by 2, shooting two technical shots, then getting the ball at half court with 2 seconds left. Hmmmm.

I took it to be celebratory and a bit taunting, then, to take a last-minute layup at your opponent's basket. It wasn't the right context for a T but it did seem arguable. I don't think the coach had anything to do with it, just the players inbounding the ball realizing they could not score at their own basket in time, so they put the ball into the opponent's goal. It made me wonder about under what circumstances a T might be a correct call, if ever... probably would have to be accompanied by some other gestures.

just another ref Sun Jul 20, 2008 04:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkjenning
I don't think the coach had anything to do with it, just the players inbounding the ball realizing they could not score at their own basket in time, so they put the ball into the opponent's goal.


I think I speak for us all when I say: HUH?

jkjenning Sun Jul 20, 2008 04:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref
I think I speak for us all when I say: HUH?

Huh, what? They inbounded the ball, wanted another shot at a basket but were not going to get off a shot at their own basket before the buzzer, so they laid it in the opponent's basket... what was unclear about hat? :confused:


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