Personal Foul - Out of Bounds?
 

Can a personal foul occur out of bounds? For example, as many of you probably witnessed, during the NBA playoffs the Spurs blatantly fouled Shaq over and over sending him to the line.

So hypothetically, what would happen if Shaq inbounded the ball and went up the court never stepping inbounds during the possession and the Spurs attempted to foul him. Is that a foul, even though he's not on the playing surface? Is the playing surface/court considered between the lines or the area surrounding the "court?" Is it an intentional foul because he's not on the playing surface? Or is it just a regular foul, assuming it isn't malicious, like we're used to seeing? Or something else?

Thanks for your help.

I'm not sure about the NBA ruleset, but Fed goes like this:

A player who is inbounding the ball and does not immediately return to the court is supposed to be assessed a technical foul per 10-3-3 for delay in returning to the court.

To add to my Mile High friend's explanation (which is entirely correct); if you were to have a player running down the court decide to step out of bounds to avoid the defense or make the defender chase him, it would be a violation resulting in giving the ball to the defense at the spot he went out of bounds.

If going out of bounds were incidental and accidental (momentum, for example) any foul against that player would fall under normal live ball definitions.

[NFHS] (Ignoring the tangential point of remaining OOB after a throwin)
Being OOB doesn't change as much as some people may think/claim. Being OOB doesn't make it impossible to be fouled; it merely precludes Legal Guarding Position. Any foul where the determination of the party responsible for the contact depends on LGP (block/charge) becomes a block....because the player is OOB. The rationale behind this is to prevent a player from using OOB to his advantage in cutting off the path of an opponent. However, no other forms of contact are impacted as they do not depend on LGP. Illegal Use of Hands, Push, Hold, and Handcheck can still all be committed against an OOB opponent. In fact a charge can still be called against the offensive player if LGP is not a factor...stationary defender who was standing OOB...the offense doesn't get a free shot on any player who happens to be OOB (much like the player in the lane with their back to the dribbler who anticipated a rebound).

As for intentional or not, that would be determined based on the act itself without regard to the location. (The only automatic intentional foul that depends on location is fouling the thrower on the OOB side of a throwin plane.)

Another Myth Bites The Dust (So To Speak) ...
 

The defender may not break the imaginary plane during a throwin. If the defender breaks the imaginary plane during a throwin, the defender’s team will receive a team warning, or if the team has already been warned for one of the four delay situations, this action would result in a team technical foul. If the defender contacts the ball after breaking the imaginary plane, it is a player technical foul and a team warning will be recorded. If the defender fouls the inbounding player after breaking the imaginary plane, it is an intentional personal foul, and a team warning will be recorded.

Billy,
It seems that you may need to amend this one for the NFHS level.
What happens if the defender breaks the boundary plane AFTER the thrower has released the ball? ;)

By Definition, The Throwin Hasn't Ended,. So ...
 

Good question.

NFHS 4-42-5: The throw-in ends when the passed ball touches, or is touched by, another player who is either inbounds or out of bounds.

My guess.

No contact. Violation, warning, or technical foul, if already given one of the four delay warnings. However, if the throwin is successful, I might chose to ignore it, and speak to the offending player about it. I won't ignore it a second time after speaking to the offending player.

Contact. An even better question. I still say intentional personal foul if the throwin hasn't ended, by the above definition.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. What's your story?

I think that you should take a hard look at 9-2-10. ;)

9-2-10
 

9-2-10: The opponent(s) of the thrower shall not have any part of his/her person through the inbounds side of the throw-in boundary-line plane until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass.

Good point. So, with no contact, it's not a violation.

With contact, I still say intentional personal foul.

Imaginary Plane ???
 

Nevadaref: Thanks. How's this?

MOST MISUNDERSTOOD BASKETBALL RULES

10) The defender may not break the imaginary plane during a throwin until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass. If the defender breaks the imaginary plane during a throwin before the ball has been released on a throw-in pass, the defender’s team will receive a team warning, or if the team has already been warned for one of the four delay situations, this action would result in a team technical foul. If the defender contacts the ball after breaking the imaginary plane, it is a player technical foul and a team warning will be recorded. If the defender fouls the inbounding player after breaking the imaginary plane, it is an intentional personal foul, and a team warning will be recorded.

That's a big improvement.
The point that I wished to make is that the NFHS rule is different from the NCAA one. Many people don't know that subtle point.