The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Question: Who gets the Ball or the arrow? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/46112-question-who-gets-ball-arrow.html)

Johnny Ringo Sun Jul 06, 2008 09:44pm

Question: Who gets the Ball or the arrow?
 
When does a technical foul not follow with the team that shot FTs getting the ball at halfcourt opposite scorer's table?

CLH Sun Jul 06, 2008 09:49pm

When you're playing under NCAA or NBA rules.

Bad Zebra Sun Jul 06, 2008 09:56pm

When it is part of a double technical foul, which results in the ball being put back in play at the point of interruption (in which case there may not be any free throws).

JRutledge Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:02pm

Or at the end of the game (after the horn has blown and officials have not left the visual confines of the court) when a T is given and the FTs decide the outcome of the game.

Peace

Back In The Saddle Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:40pm

Or when it's part of, but not the last part of, some kind of false double foul. Simple example, you have a T on A1 for doing something T'able. While B1 is shooting the free throws, B's coach says something unsporting and gets whacked. Following B's free throws, A will then shoot two and get the ball at midcourt. So B shot two free throws, but did not get the ball.

I'm sure somebody will jump in with a far more interesting and colorful example. :)

Johnny Ringo Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:14am

NFHS ... Team A gets Tech called on them while walking to the locker room after 1st half ...

How do we start second half?

just another ref Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo
NFHS ... Team A gets Tech called on them while walking to the locker room after 1st half ...

How do we start second half?

Team B gets 2 free throws plus the ball at the division line. Arrow stays where it is.

JRutledge Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo
NFHS ... Team A gets Tech called on them while walking to the locker room after 1st half ...

How do we start second half?

You start the second half by Team B shooting 2 FTs and giving the ball to Team B at the division line, opposite the table.

Peace

Adam Mon Jul 07, 2008 08:25am

One more example.

When the T is the final action of a period. A1 fouls a shooting B1 as time expires. As the official is reporting, A coach earns a T. Shoot the shot(s) for the original foul, then shoot the shots for the T. Next period will begin with an AP throw-in.

cdoug Mon Jul 07, 2008 09:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
One more example.

When the T is the final action of a period. A1 fouls a shooting B1 as time expires. As the official is reporting, A coach earns a T. Shoot the shot(s) for the original foul, then shoot the shots for the T. Next period will begin with an AP throw-in.


You shoot the shots for the T before going to the locker room? Why not at the start of the 2nd half?

bob jenkins Mon Jul 07, 2008 09:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdoug
You shoot the shots for the T before going to the locker room? Why not at the start of the 2nd half?

Because the T happened during the first half, not after the half was over.

Adam Mon Jul 07, 2008 09:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdoug
You shoot the shots for the T before going to the locker room? Why not at the start of the 2nd half?

Because, as Bob states, the 1st half has not ended when the T is called. Assuming my scenario takes place at the end of the 2nd quarter, the half (or quarter) does not end until all action has been completed. In my scenario, there are free throws to be shot, and until they have been shot, the first half cannot end.

lukealex Wed Jul 09, 2008 07:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
Because, as Bob states, the 1st half has not ended when the T is called. Assuming my scenario takes place at the end of the 2nd quarter, the half (or quarter) does not end until all action has been completed. In my scenario, there are free throws to be shot, and until they have been shot, the first half cannot end.

What about a T after time expires ending the 4th quarter and the game is tied? I seem to think the OT period will be played after the free throws are shot regardless of outcome.

bob jenkins Wed Jul 09, 2008 08:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukealex
What about a T after time expires ending the 4th quarter and the game is tied? I seem to think the OT period will be played after the free throws are shot regardless of outcome.

To be technical (ha!) about it, the OT period begins with the administration of the T.

Note that in your play, the 4th quarter had ended. That means that time had expired, and any related activity, such as FTs for a foul that occurred during the 4th quarter, was completed. THEN the T was issued.

In Snaqwell's play, time had expired (in the 2nd quarter), but the FTs had NOT been shot. So, the 2nd quarter was still going when the T was issued -- the T was part of the 2nd quarter, so the T was administered DURING the 2nd quarter.

Adam Wed Jul 09, 2008 09:16am

To assimilate the two plays, consider the following play:
Game is tied with time winding down in the 4th quarter.
A1 shoots with time expiring and is fouled by B1 as the horn sounds. The shot misses. B1 immediately says something about the official's heritage, earning a T.

You'll shoot the T first, followed by A1's shots if necessary.

If this happened with an insurmountable point spread, no shots will be taken but all fouls (and ejections if they are flagrant) will be recorded.

Back In The Saddle Wed Jul 09, 2008 09:16am

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukealex
What about a T after time expires ending the 4th quarter and the game is tied? I seem to think the OT period will be played after the free throws are shot regardless of outcome.

Correct.

NFHS 5-6 Note 4: If a technical foul occurs after the ball has become dead to end a quarter or extra period, the next quarter or extra period is started by administering the free throws. This applies when the foul occurs after any quarter has ended, including the fourth quarter, provided there is to be an extra period. If there is no way to determine whether there will be an extra period until the free throws are administered, the free throws are attempted immediately, as if the foul had been part of the preceding quarter.

NFHS Case Book - 5.6 COMMENT B: If a technical foul occurs after the ball has become dead to end a quarter, the next quarter is started by administering the free throws. This applies even when the foul occurs after the first half has ended. It also applies when the foul occurs after the second half has ended, provided the score is tied. If the score is not tied, the free throws are administered unless the outcome of the game will not be affected. If the outcome is not already decided, the free throws are attempted immediately as if the foul had been a part of the fourth quarter. In this case, if any overtime period is necessary, it will start with a jump ball. The division line throw-in following the technical foul cannot be carried over to the overtime as the fourth quarter ended with the last free throw. (5-6-4)

NCAA 5-6 : Art. 6. When an indirect technical foul, a direct technical foul, a flagrant technical foul or (men) an intentional technical foul occurs after the ball has become dead to end a period, the next period shall be started by administering the free throws and play shall resume at the point of interruption by awarding the ball at the division line on either side of the playing court. This shall apply when the foul occurs after the first half has ended or after the second half or any extra period has ended, provided that there is to be an(other) extra period.

A.R. 123. Playing time has expired with the score tied and (a) A1 is assessed with either an indirect or direct technical foul, (b) A1 is assessed with a flagrant technical foul or (c) A1 is assessed with a (men) intentional technical foul. RULING: In (a), the extra period shall start by awarding a player from Team B two free throws for the indirect or direct technical foul that was assessed to A1. Play shall resume at the point of interruption which would be a jump ball. In (b), A1 shall be ejected and the extra period shall start by awarding a player from Team B two free throws for the flagrant technical foul that was assessed to A1. Play shall resume with a throw-in for Team B at the division line on either side of the court. In (c), the extra period shall start by awarding a player from Team B two free throws for the (men) intentional technical foul that was assessed to A1. Play shall resume with a throw-in for Team B at the division line on either side of the court.

bob jenkins Wed Jul 09, 2008 09:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells
You'll shoot the T first, followed by A1's shots if necessary.

While it doesn't make much difference, in FED ball, you'd shoot A1's FTs first, followed by the FTs for the T if needed.

Adam Wed Jul 09, 2008 09:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins
While it doesn't make much difference, in FED ball, you'd shoot A1's FTs first, followed by the FTs for the T if needed.

Doh! You're right. I was thinking Fed and still had POI on the brain. Not sure why.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:55pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1